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Post by cuda on Jan 30, 2010 14:51:51 GMT -5
Which do you think is a better all around gun 308 or 30-06? And has any one shot these in a Mossberg or Marlin? Will the cheaper guns shoot as well as the more expensive gun? There is a gun show next weekend and I might pick one up. So I was looking for a little more info from you guys that have or have shoot these guns. A cheaper rifle means that I will have more money for the scope. Thanks for any help!
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Post by ozark on Jan 30, 2010 17:22:33 GMT -5
Both are good. The 308 might have an edge if the rifle is a semi-automatic because of the shorter cartridge. I have shot both Mossberg and Marlin and they both are fine. If you are not interested in the appearance then the cheaper versions should serve you well. Personally, I would choose a bolt action. Good luck, it is possible to get a lemon with any brand but your chances are great that you will get satisfaction.
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Post by whyohe on Jan 30, 2010 19:26:11 GMT -5
cuda what are you planning to do? the 2 carterages are very simalar. you are giving up some speed and some energy with the 308 but not a whole lot. are you looking for a lever action? if so i dont think they made a lever action in the 30-06. and you will probably give up some more speed(not much) with a lever action. if you want go to Hornadys web sight and you can compare the 2 factory carterages.
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Post by Richard on Jan 30, 2010 19:59:35 GMT -5
Barry..........I would go with the .308 Period! If you were planning on shooting bullets over 200 gr. then I would say the 06'. You will note that most all sniper rifles are chambered in .308 NOT 06' . There is a lot of good brass available for the .308. Being smaller in size, you can carry shots with less weight. The .308 is just a very accurate cartridge and many powders will shoot well in it. The .308 lends itself to using a shorter action. Shorter is stiffer which generally relates to more accurate. On the other hand, I can not say anything bad about the 30/06. Richard
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Post by DHinMN on Jan 30, 2010 22:51:26 GMT -5
A 3006 will shoot a bullet faster and harder than a 308. Just like a 300 Win will shoot faster and harder than a 3006. The answer is what are you going to hunt with it. If you think you might hunt elk, moose, bear I'd go for the 06. But if it is just for deer at nominal range a 308 would probably be fine. I've got a nice trim light weight 308 that makes a dandy rifle for general deer hunting. So the question is back to you. What are you going to hunt or use it for and what do you expect it to do and what do you like in a rifle. Look over some ballistics charts and that may help you decide.
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Post by cuda on Jan 31, 2010 1:48:52 GMT -5
I might want to get rid of my SKS and about 2000 rounds. And get a gun that I can shoot deer and coyotes. I am not worried about the pelts but I do not want them to live either. That is why I need a good scope as it is hard to get close to them for a good shot. I will be reloading for this gun light and heavy loads. I am looking for a bolt action rifle. I might get to shoot some pigs with it too. Thanks Mike
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Post by youp50 on Jan 31, 2010 5:06:53 GMT -5
I own some 308's and do not own a '06.
If I were to start over with one rifle and planned on reloading, I would go with the '06. Handloading the heavy bullets is where you will see the advantages of the longer case. The longer, heavier bullets will buck the wind better. You may find a good buy on some 200+gr bullets for the hog thing.
I really like the 308 round. For a handloader the 06 is much more versatile.
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Post by whelenman on Jan 31, 2010 9:30:16 GMT -5
I've got both. Between the two get the one in the rifle that best satisfies and fits you and don't worry about the caliber. Both are widely available and both will probably do what you want. The Savage and Marlin bolt actions will probably shoot just as well as a more expensive rifle but just wont have the looks and finish. Some of a rifle's accuracy is just luck of the draw be it an expensive or a low cost version.
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Post by dans on Jan 31, 2010 9:38:37 GMT -5
I would buy a model 200 Stevens in 308. With the number of premium bullets available, for deer, hogs, black bear etc. you won't be giving up much to the 30-06. I bought my middle son a .308 in a remington 742 and it is a great shooting mild kicking rifle.
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 31, 2010 15:01:46 GMT -5
When I bought my "long ranger" I was trying to get a 112BT in .308 but had to settle for a 112FVSS in 30-06. My thought was I could always swap out the barrel for a 300WM. As others said your not giving much specially with 180gr bullets and below. The 30-06 requires a long action while the .308 will go in a lighter short action. The 30-06 has some advantages over the .308, you can shoot heavier bullets and with the larger case and a long barrel you can get the most out of slower powders (but you have to roll your own [handload]). .308 has the advantage with cheap mil surplus ammo (a lot of the 30-06 has dried up). The smaller case is a bit more efficient with faster powders and allows using shorter barrels.
I always loved showing up to a range for a match and finding it windy, I just bring out the 190 or 200gr bullets and most those boys shooting 150-155gr .308s would be spraying.
Just to add,, the Army's M24 sniper rifle is actually a long action. They actually wanted to use the 30-06 which match ammo was still on the books and still be able to upgrade to say a 300WM. Last year the Army put out a request for bids to upgrade all M24s to use the 300WM and other mods. The DoD also bought a bunch of Mk 248 ammo which is 300WM loaded with 220gr SMKs coming out at about 2850fps. The Navy's Mk 13 sniper rifle, which is their top dog sniper rifle, uses the M24 action chambered in 300WM. The military is no stranger to the 300WM, the marksmanship units have used them for a while, Carlos Hathcock won a few of his trophies at Camp Perry with a 300WM.
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Post by DHinMN on Jan 31, 2010 17:38:10 GMT -5
For coyotes, deer, & hogs would you consider a 7mm-08. I don't have one but it seems like a cartridge that a lot of people like. If you are buying new and are going to handload just as well look at more calibers. Nothing wrong with the 308 though.
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Post by pposey on Jan 31, 2010 18:28:56 GMT -5
I prefer a Savage bolt action in 7mm-08 for large deer and down.
A savage bolt in .308 will be a better deer and down rifle,, ie less powder, less recoil and noise
A savage bolt in 30-06 will be better if you plan on using it for elk, moose, or really long range big deer like out west.
I have 2, 7mm-08's and 2, 300WM's,,, the .308 and 30-06 just dont fill a nich for me
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Post by rjhans53 on Jan 31, 2010 18:38:36 GMT -5
because you are planning on reloading for this thing, I would go to the 308. Both are about equal in performance but with the 08 you get more rounds per pound of powder.
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Post by cfvickers on Jan 31, 2010 19:23:42 GMT -5
I'd go .308 because brass is cheaper, and on the lines rossman was speaking, mil surplus .308 ammo isn't going anywhere any time soon,unless obama has his way, but then there won't be any guns to worry about.
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Post by ozark on Jan 31, 2010 19:54:12 GMT -5
Either cartridge is certainly and without reservations excellent. The .308 replaced the 30-06 as the standard issue military rifle. This was primarily so that all NATO countries would have the same rifle and no doubt so the USA could supply rifles and ammo to many if not most to the NATO group. That aside, the 7.62 MM cartridge (308) broke all the records set by the 30.06. This probably because it was better designed for semi-auto fire and the rifle itself was more accurate when properly accurized. No one with knowledge can knock either as a hunting cartridge. Choosing is a case where you can't go wrong cartridge wise. I personally would get the .308 because of the shorter action and cartridge. But I would never agrue that it was actually superior in all catagories to the 06. Put the right cartridge in either and you can't blame the rifle when you fail. Naturally they both need quality optics and sighted in well. I would sight both in 1 1/2" high at 100 yards or meters. Two proven mighty fine cartridges.
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Post by northny on Jan 31, 2010 21:13:56 GMT -5
You can't go wrong with either one, so what I suggest (and what I just did buying a left handed CF rifle from my son for deer) is see which one you can get a deal on buy it. I was looking for an '06, .308 or .270 win. for the son Found a deal on an older REM 700. left hand in .270 winchester. $300 with weaver 3 - 9X on it. Bluing was a little worn, stock had some light wear. Shot it for the first time on Wednesday, printed 1.1 inches at 100 yards in a light snow with some old Federal factory 150 grains.
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Post by cfvickers on Feb 1, 2010 12:14:45 GMT -5
Old beat up rifles will often surprise you.
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Post by northny on Feb 2, 2010 13:50:21 GMT -5
"Old beat up rifles will often surprise you." I agree. I often tell my wife the same thing about old beat up men.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Feb 2, 2010 18:10:37 GMT -5
Ballistically, most would never know the difference. I would pick the platform you want and see what's available. Unless you are looking for a semi, you have 100's of choices. I would assume you are not buying a gun with the option to re-barrel.
Many have mentioned very good points regarding short action stiffness, brass availability, etc. For everyone but an extreme perfectionist, either choice is fine.
I owned a sporterized A3-03 in 30-06 (Rossman, did I call that out right?) when I was a young punk...under 18. I shot that gun very well and unless I was shooting matches, woodchucks were in big trouble inside 300 yds and I made my longest shot ever on one at 525 paces. This with "re-manufactured" 150 gr FMJ's. The gun was a shooter. This gun was worn out when I bought it and exhausted when I sold it...and it still shot well.
As for larger bullets over 180, they will take up space in the .308 that could be used for powder....but how many times are you going to go for 180+ bullets? Anything you need done can be done with the good bullets offered today at 180 or less in 30 cal. A 180 nosler partition or Barnes copper with a BC of around .50 is hard to beat for flight and penetration. Who would want either cartridge with the rainbow trajectory each would have with a 220+ bullet going 2400-2500 fps at the most?
Brass for both is widely available. Richard is a top-Notch expert in long range and accurate guns, so the short action comments are probably true statistically but not a deal maker/breaker by going long action.
Pick a platform, get your gun. Can't really go wrong. You have unlimited choices.
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Post by rossman40 on Feb 2, 2010 23:29:50 GMT -5
M1903A3, but we know what you meant. The M1903A4 was the Army sniper version (Marines mainly used a worked over M1903A1) and there were still examples in use in the early years of Vietnam. Just another point of interest is that Carlos Hathcock's rifle while he was in Vietnam was a model 70 in 30-06.
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Post by petev on Feb 4, 2010 11:12:51 GMT -5
A couple of points that I might add: The.308 has a little less energy than a 30-06, but still has plenty, so you may experience a little less meat destruction and recoil with the .308. Also, a subtle point is that in the same make and model, the .308 is usually a little bit shorter in overall length, which may be preferred. For game larger than the average sized whitetail, there may be reason to go with a 30-06. I've owned a .308 in Ruger, and now one in CZ, and they are both great shooters. The Savage rifles are getting good reviews also. There are also a few "brush" type guns available in .308, if that is of interest.
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Post by herman on Feb 5, 2010 8:57:26 GMT -5
I have a buddie that just bought a marlin in 308 and I just loaded him some 165 gr bullets with different powders to try.But with all the snow and ice we are haveing it may be awhile before I can get them to him,he lives over a 100 miles from me. I have shot the marlin in 270 and 7/08 and right out of the box,cleaning they both shot less than MOA with my loads that I shoot out of my remys. at 100 yds.Will get to try them out to 300 later. I have shot lots of deer with a 30/06 and have been shooting a 308 now for several years but haven't hunted with the 308 but twice and killed one at 300 and one at 110 yds.The one at 110 yds was this past year and I was trying a berger 168 gr to see how it did on deer.It worked great just behind the shoulder and it went straight dowm,the one at 300 was with a 150 gr sst and it did the same as a 30/06 would have.I used a tikka varmit for these.This rifle will shoot about anything you put in it.It is set up for up to 1000 yds.But don't think I would try it on deer. Have a savage target in 308 and it is a shooter,but too heavy to carry hunting.185 gr bullets is as heavy as I have tried in it and they shot very well with the 1:10 twist. The only 30/06 I have left is a rem 742,haven't shot it in years but dropped a lot of deer with it.One was my biggest ever 250 lb. The savage:
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Post by whelenman on Feb 5, 2010 9:12:41 GMT -5
Herman, those are some great groupings. I'm currently building a Savage Target 308 with a Shilen barrel. If it gets anywhere near those groupings I will be extremely pleased. Mines going to be a 1:10 with intent to shoot 155-175 gr. bullets. I just ordered the barrel last week so it's not too late to change the twist rate. I'm undecided. It's interesting that you shot those 135s. What twist rate are you running? I intend to use the rifle for informal 1-300 yard shoots.
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Post by herman on Feb 5, 2010 10:16:12 GMT -5
My savage is the factory F/tr in 308.It has a 1:10 twist.It shoots any thing from 110 to 185 grs very well. My friend Bill that shoots with me and richard got one also but when he got it it had a 1:12 twist and didn't shoot as well he called savage and was told to send it back it had the wrong twist in it so they changed it to a 1:10. The tikka has a 1:11 twist they both shoot the about same. A couple years ago some of us went to SC on a boar hunt at on of the lodges.I took along my tikka 308 in case I got to hunt over a big field.As I said it is set up for 1000 ys by that it has a springfield sniper scope on it that is graduated in 100 ys out to 1000ys. We got to talking about long distance and the lodge owner had a 1000 yd range with the metal gonges.Then we got to talking about my tikka and one fellow had never shot any long range and wanted to try it.We went down to the range and had some wind from right to left so I told him I would shoot it first to see where it was hitting at 500 yds.It was a little left so told him where to hold on the gong and he hit it the first shot at 1000 you talk about tickled he was.Another fellow had a 300 ultra mag and shot at it 3 times he said he hit it but none of us heard it.Anyway we went back to the lodge and the guide came in and wanted to know who shot the gong at 1000 yds I just pointed at the fellow that shot it.He said d**n that bullet was allmost dead center. This is how the 110 v-max shoots in the savage at 100 yds.
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Post by whelenman on Feb 5, 2010 13:31:15 GMT -5
Not to ignore the 30-06 here's what a sporter weight barreled 30-06 on a P17 action can do. The barrel is of unknown vintage.
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Post by herman on Feb 6, 2010 6:03:39 GMT -5
Looks like you did well on that one.I like the 30/06 also.What powder did you use with the 165's.I used to use A2230-C surpls in the 308 and the 30/06 but since the source dried up I like IMR 4350 with the 165's and R-15 with the 150 grs.in the 06. I had a used rem adl and a rem mtn 30/06 that would shoot. Ayoung fellow at the range let me shoot his new model 7 in 308 and it would shoot also. My younger brother has an old mossberg in 308 that he got me to set up for him and it would shoot very well,but don't know about the new ones. Cuda I hope these post on the 30/06 and 308 help you out.I have 2 308's and one 30/06 now if I was going to get another one it would be another 308 probably in the marlin.
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Post by whelenman on Feb 6, 2010 7:23:37 GMT -5
Herman I had mostly used IMR4350 in the 30-06 in the past but that group was fired with RL22 just after bedding the rifle and refinishing the stock. It was the first and only group I've fired with that rifle after the work. I was kinda surprized with the powder. She's an old girl that was made and stocked many years ago by people unknown but now she's mostly a safe queen. I bought the rifle because it was cheap and had good metalwork and a nice piece of wood that had not been finished so well. I took care of it's shortcomings one winter.
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Post by petev on Feb 6, 2010 10:18:28 GMT -5
cuda, I am not sure whether your question pertains to hunting or target shooting, but most, or alt least many of the replies here have been from target shooters. It might be nice to hear from some from the point of hunting with either of these calibers. I've already given my opinion. For some reason, the .308 is almost fading away with the public, whereas the 30-06 remains the number one popular deer caliber, the last I heard. It might be nice to run a thread on 7mm-08, since if it is midway between the .308 and .243 it might be a pretty ideal deer cartridge also.
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Post by ozark on Feb 6, 2010 11:12:31 GMT -5
The hunter isn't going to notice a difference between the .308 and the 30.06 and neither are the animals shot with the two. The 7mm-08 is also a good deer hunting cartridge. There will be personal preferences among a long list of cartridges but a reloader can change the bullet and velocity to make either inferior or superior to the other. This thread could go on for years and there would still be hunters who liked one better than the other. That is because in the woods, shooting at deer, with equal loads and sighting equipment the results will be the same. A close look at a ballistic chart comparing the two against what is needed to harvest a deer one can find slightly different numbers to talk about but for one to be better than the other there must be a difference that would cause a failure with one and not the other. I hunt with a .243 as a preference but I can't say it is superior to some others. My favorite meal is a thick Med. Rare Sirloin steak with a baked potato and fresh garden salad. But that doesn't mean everyone would agree. Some smart aclect might like inner tenderloin of young doe better.
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Post by whelenman on Feb 6, 2010 11:16:05 GMT -5
You're completely wrong Ozark. It's a rib eye medium rare. Like Ozark said it's six of one and half dozen of the other.
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