Cold Weather Layering

[Dave W]

What do you use , temp conditions, and has anyone had experience with the Vaetrex line of clothing?

www.northernoutfitters.com/

[dougedwards]

On those frigid cold mornings I use a tactic that never fails. I stay in bed with my warm wife ;D

Doug

[jims]

Doug I stay with my wife on some days like that also. At least we are close to our "dear".

[larry]

:)Dave,Haven,t heard of or tried Vaetrex. However, this is some good stuff for layer #2.
www.stanfields.com/products.asp?CategoryID=8&SubCategoryID=36#top
Also known as Canadian Woolies.

[ET]

DW

Not familliar with the company you mentioned and yes I'm a believer with layered clothing. For hunting in temps 32F and up to say 50F I prefer track pants under say light army style pants. This keeps hindering leg movement minimal and seems to provide sufficient warmth even when sitting still.

For the chest area I prefer a light shirt and light fleece jacket or light wool sweater under a fall coat. If it gets too warm I just take the sweater off and through it behind in my hunting vest pouch.

Ed

[Al]

Carharts to 32*, Artic Carharts after that. This morning I'll have the Artics on thou.

I have a short 1/4 walk to my pet ground blind, I take my time as not to get sweated up.

I can't say enough about Under Armour thou, I've used it elk hunting where walking most of the day was the norm. Wife is a city mail carrier, she swears by it when it's cold cold.

[rossman40]

Layers is the key. Your base layer should get the moisture away from your skin. The best for this polypropylyne. The basics is that wet clothing conducts cold 40 times faster then dry.

Next you should have a "wicking" layer, ether pile or fleece. The best natural fiber is wool, it is the only natural fiber that will keep you warm when it is wet. If your working hard it is tough to beat a good pile, wear it fuzzy side out and sweat will go to the ends of the pile, wear it fuzzy side in for max warmth.

Next comes your insulation layer, best natural insulation is goose down but there are a lot of good synthetics.

And then your outer or protection layer. It was to be windproof, weatherproof (rain) and breathable. The key here is breathable, remember the sweat that got pushed out to the wicking layer? It gets turned into water vapor and has to go somewhere or it condenses in the insulation layer. So you ether have to vent or let the vapor pass thru. Tight knit nylon was the berries until Gore-Tex hit the market. Gore-Tex has like billions of pores per square inch that are big enough for a molecule of water vapor to pass thru but 1/20,000 smaller then a water droplet.

Now you can mix and match, add more and remove layers to fill the need. The thing to watch is "breaking a sweat" as Al said. You "break a sweat" and get too wet you loose enough heat that you can not turn the sweat to vapor and your cold and may stay that way.

Before UnderArmour and even before North Face and Columbia there was Helly Hansen. When it came to work gear for the worst of conditions they had it. I wore out a lumberjack pile pull over and several sets of polypro long underwear.

[Al]

I had HH when it came out, got it from LL Bean, it was great.

Then wife washed it in a HOT load, then dried it in the dryer on Hotter yet, it went from XL to kids small. ugh

[rossman40]

I think the drier has killed many a set of polypros, that was the fate most of mine succumbed to. My favorite was the lightweight, I called them my "nylons" because they were so thin, but pure polypropylene sure hates a hot drier.

Helly Hansen has jumped on the hunting bandwagon now too and is offering their outer layer stuff in camo,

www.hellyhansengear.com/s-16-hunting.aspx

[dougedwards]

I hunt in Virginia where sometimes it will dip into the low 20's early in the morning, sometimes down into the teens. By using this layering technique that has been mentioned I can say that, unless there is a blustery wind, I don't get cold except for my fingers and toes. For toes and fingers there are little hot packs that can be purchased at Walmart and other places that will help. It is a little troublesome to take off boots to insert the packs but well worth it if toes are frozen.

Doug

[DHinMN]

Yes, those toe and finger hot packs do work. It gets colder in MN and those things really help. We've been using them for a few years now. DH

[wildman]

arctic shield does a great job, dont know whats in it but it works without the weight.

[dougedwards]

I must say that all the proper layering of clothing will do little good if you allow yourself to sweat walking to your stand. This is why I feel it is a mistake to wrap yourself up in layers of clothes and then walk 300+ yards up and down hills and creeks, stepping over fallen trees not allowing the heat to escape from your body.

I carry my clothes in a pack and either attach the pack inside of my climber or strap the pack directly to my back while traveling to my stand site and then will don my layers of clothing right before I get to my tree. Also, being a type A personality I have a tendency to want to get to my stand quickly and find myself almost in a slow trot. The best thing to do is to move slowly and even stop to rest a bit so that you won't get over-heated which will cause the body to sweat to release the heat.

Has it been anyone's experience that you tend to feel the coldest about an hour or so after official sunrise?

Doug

[youp50]

Always colder at dawn.

Bald guys rule when it comes to getting to a stand cooler. Just take off your hat, kinda like walking about with your pants down.

I used to be able to find a wool union suit that I would wear next to my skin. I use Polypropylene now. To me, I prefer the way wool feels over polypro when I sweat. I have been thinking that Smart Wool may get some of my money soon for a set of underwear.

Doug has it right if you have a ways to go before you get to your stand. Carry your clothes in a back sack. I used to walk over two miles to a stand, I went as far as carrying pack boots and dry socks.

[KerryB]

I think along the same lines as Rossman. I wear polypro long underwear tops and bottoms. Then i put on either wool hunting shirt or heavy cotton hooded pullover sweatshirt. If it is really cold, i next get on an insulated pair of Carhartt canvas pants and a goose down pullover jacket. Finally, i put on an outer layer consisting of Columbia bibs and a Columbia Widgeon insulated waterproof jacket that will keep out wind, rain, and cold.........no matter how nasty it is. Lots of times during duck season, i will put on 5mm neoprene chest waders with the previous clothing and i can stand out in iced over water up to my waist for hours on end without feeling the cold. If i am hiking a long distance or working setting out decoys, i will usually leave off the outer layer of Columbia's till the work is over and i am starting to cool off or get chilled. Then i will put the Columbia outer layer back on to warm up. Layering is what i learned many years ago and it works so well, i've used it ever since.

[huntingmike]

I agree to all previous posts. I have one more item for extreme cold and wind and it is the heater body suit. It is heavy and cumbersome but if you are setting still in extreme cold it is the way to completely stay warm fingers and toes included.

Mike

[Dave W]

30-40 degree temps, I wear thermal top & bottoms, one or two sweatshirts, pair jogging pants and a light pair of camo goretex pants. In my backpack I carry two down vests and a light camo goretex jacket which I put on once I am in the stand.

I take my time enroute to the stand, no sweating is a priority due to odor and to avoid cold chills once on stand.

One of my down vests has about had it so I'm looking to replace it with a less bulkier vest, maybe something like wool or fleece but with windstopper. The Sitkagear Dutch Oven looks great but the wife might strangle me with it at $400.

Don't know if anyone else uses them but a neckgaiter seems to help with heat loss since most of the body heat supposedly exits through the head and neck area.

[artjr338wm]

Doug and Rossman have said it about as good as it can be told.

There is a saying some hunters I met who live and guide in Alaska told me they all live by. "COTTON KILLS"I learned while elk hunting in the mountains out west that I will never again wear any cotton clothing while hunting, only 100% synthetic for me from now on.

I also make d**n sure I dress light enough so as to not sweat at all. I rarely wear a hat while walking to my stand. If I even suspect I might break a sweat, I stop and do not move again till I cool off enough to be come uncomfortably cool.

One thing I am aching to try is "The Body Warmer Suit" for use when I will be stand hunting in cold weather all day. Looks like a good design if it works as advertised while bow hunting.

Unfortunately I only buy no name synthetic clothing or well known brands on close out, so i can not comment on Vaetrex clothing. as I have two young sons in prvt school, i simply can not afford to spend nearly $100 on a single set if synthetic under were like UA.

Watching the sales at Sportsman Guide, Cheaper than dirt and cabelas door buster sales I have been able to equip my self with some IMHO excellent synthetic cloths for the money spent. In the last 10 or so years have bought 7 pairs of 100% synthetic pants by Rocky ($14.99ea), 6 complete sets of MTM LT/WT oder resistant boxers and short sleeved shirts from Cabelas Bargain basement ($9.99 per set of two), 5 complete sets of top and bottom mid weight 100% syn ins underwear again from Cabelas ($9.99 ea top & bot at door buster sale), two mid/wt 100% syn wind proof water resistant jackets, again from Cabelas ($39.99 ea), six sets of mid weight wool/ply pro ins underwear from durrafold at a going out of bis sale at a local army surplus ($12.99 per set of three tops&bots) all for a estimated total of around $500. I also have got some great deals on military weight Polly ins underwear pro from CTD.
As I only ever wear my hunting clothing while actually hunting, the cloths i buy for hunting tend to last me for well over 10yrs, especially since i am the only one who ever washes them. I also store all my hunting cloths in unscented garbage bags placed in large, tightly sealed rubber made containers.

The way I look at it is this; I can either afford one set of UA or seven pairs of 100% syn pants made By Rocky. Three sets of UA ins under were or all 16 sets of my bargain priced ins long underwear.

I have no doubt UA works as well as advertised, I just can not afford to by it in the quantities I need to hunt in it.

[dougedwards]

Dec 10, 2009 22:29:08 GMT -5 Dave W said:

30-40 degree temps, I wear thermal top & bottoms, one or two sweatshirts, pair jogging pants and a light pair of camo goretex pants. In my backpack I carry two down vests and a light camo goretex jacket which I put on once I am in the stand.

I take my time enroute to the stand, no sweating is a priority due to odor and to avoid cold chills once on stand.

One of my down vests has about had it so I'm looking to replace it with a less bulkier vest, maybe something like wool or fleece but with windstopper. The Sitkagear Dutch Oven looks great but the wife might strangle me with it at $400.

Don't know if anyone else uses them but a neckgaiter seems to help with heat loss since most of the body heat supposedly exits through the head and neck area.

Can I have that down vest when you are done with it? It will match all of the other worn out stuff that I wear ;D

Doug

[jtswitz]

I firmly believe in under armor and Artic shield
Jim

[12ptdroptine]

I have tried everything I can get my hand's on at one time or another. I have type II and circulation is a problem...Along with about an extra 40 lbs.... Compression underwear like to caused me to freeze to death 2 years age.... Seem's as though it compressed my circulation also... While at Cabelas 2 years ago A salesman talked to me in depth about my need's...and problem's. Poly prop work's really well.. And I bought a set of their MTP brand heavy weight... Was told the polar weight would cause me to sweat my cheeks off and then nothing would keep me warm. And then he showed me this cheapy 10 dollar a piece set of polyester stuff thad didnt really have any insulateing properties... But was a great vehicle to wick away moisture.... Boy was he ever right on !!! It has the anti-microbial stuff in it so it doesnt start stinking right away...lol.... I wear it a lot... It works so well that I can be outside working.. or rabbit hunting and My jeans and sweatshirt are actually so soaked with sweat that I come in and put them in the drier so I can keep working outside...And take a break... But my skin is as dry as could be.. And I am warm. These are just cheap one's.. I think they are called "basic"s" or something like that. They save my butt though.. I have everything from those to wool shirt's and pant's. This stuff with wool and then a gortex rain suit really work killer together. I bought a "Heater Bodysuit a couple years ago..... Havent used it yet. But as all have stated. Layering with the proper stuff is the way to go. Drop

[rossman40]

Knowing when to add and remove your layers is key and perhaps having extra. I go to the field with 3 sets of gloves, in my gear box is probly 6 pair ranging from light jersey to a pair that has 100 grams on thinsulate so it is pick the ones that match the temps. I have a back pack that always has a foam seat, heat packs, my spare gloves, spare headgear and maybe other things like a hand muff and enough room to carry more or what I take off. Know what works for you in the conditions your going to face and plan for colder.

I was on a "nature hike" while in the Army in Alaska and as a large squad was climbing mountains and it really wasn't that cold out, above zero, light wind and the sun was out. During a rest one guy said he was cold and minutes later he dropped from hypothermia. Smokin&jokin one second and down the next. He had on way too much for the ridges we were climbing and the idiot didn't take anything off. No medevac available and it almost killed the rest of us carrying his stupid a$$ out. My "tundra buddy" and me were the only ones out of the group that did not have to be hospitalized.

With the Army's new ECWCS II system, if you have everything on you have 7 layers and your good to about -40.

[Dave W]

After talking with a local who was on the law enforcement sniper team I decided to get a set of Cabelas ECWCS polar weight thermals.

To me the compression type underwear goes against the norm. I understand it lets moisture out but it also would seem to trap less air for insulation and it would seem to cut circulation like Drop said. Plus I cannot stand tight fitting clothing. The guy I talked to said he did not care for UA but others swear by it, just didn't seem like a good fit for me.

[rossman40]

The only thing you want fairly tight is your base layer. Under Armour has a problem being real tight mainly for the sports crowd, something about muscle performance.

Myself, I'll go with very lightweight polypros till about 20F and then maybe up to a thicker dual fabric below that for a base layer and just adjust the layers on top of that. The problem with thicker layers is it takes longer to dry. While in Alaska instead of wearing the thicker BDUs in a cold wet weather enviorment we would wear the light weight ripstop hot weather BDUs. Mainly because if you did get wet they dried faster.

There is a company called XGO , owned by the same company that runs Polarmax, that is selling a similar product to UA but at half the price. Also US made! They go more for the tactical crowd. I'm looking... domsoutdoor.com/product.asp?pn=1-025918

I just got a flyer from MSC and they have Helly Hanson polypros on sale for like $24ea but with the XGOs being just a tad more then Rocky's at Walmart I may have to try some of the XGO stuff.

Piqua, OH is just a bit North of me and was the long underwear capital of the world frpm like the 1890s till Medalist-Allen A moved in the late 1980s (their still the largest maker). They used to have a outlet store and had this Armory sale once a year, at the sale you could pick up stuff for 25% or less.

[ozark]

Several years ago my wife and I bought each a set of Refrigerwear coverall from L.L. Bean. They were guaranteed to fifty degrees below. We used them during winter here riding a fourwheeler. Especially in snow when everything was so beautiful. We stayed toasty warm when others had to head for the house. Our son and his wife now use the same ones at least once or twice each winter . We passed them down. I imagine they will last for twenty or thirty years. With them one could lay down in snow and take a warm nap. I forget if they were 300. each or for the pair.

[rossman40]

I got a set of Refrigiwear bibs many years ago from a friend who worked in the freezer for a supermarket distribution center. Warm for sure but the outer shell was nylon and at the time I was working in a garage and on a service call found out they were not very cutting torch proof compared to Carharts. I have seen some of their cold weather work gloves that are very nice. I have a cousin in Wisconsin and Refrigiwear is very popular with ice fisherman. They bought Refrigiwear sno-suits for all their kids back when they were selling those back in the 70s and now their grandkids are wearing them when the come up to visit

[Dave1]

Trying to find the right combination of cold weather clothing has always been a challenge. Clothing requirements for sitting still in a tree stand for hours in a breeze or wind is much different than if walking/moving around. I must be cold natured because I have never found any combination that works for both situations. Either I am freezing cold or too warm and sweating.

This year I bought a set of the Artic Shield H-6 insulated bibs and H-3 jacket. These fit over whatever else I have on and they helped but in 20-30 degrees and wind, it wasn't enough.

I use the camo BDU pants by Propper International but use only the winter cotton pant as the lighter rip stop material is very noisy when walking/moving around.

Dave

[warrior]

Great posts guys,

Raven wear - Jacket, pants,vest, and windshirt. Put a set of Justin Charles Merino wool underneath and your toasty. It's taken me years to figure it out but this is a great combo. Hunted in below zero temps all of late season and it was bearable.

If it's really bad, 3 body warmers with adhesive on the back, 1 over each kidney and 1 in the center of your chest. (over your longjohns). LOL

You guys nailed it on the head with going in lite also. I carry all of my gear in a decoy bag and get dressed at the bottom of the tree. Thanks again for some great ideas.