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Post by wilmsmeyer on Nov 15, 2009 8:00:07 GMT -5
I see that chuck shot a nice deer over on the Savage forum. He referenced the weight at 145 which he said was good sized for where he lives.
It got me thinking about how varied the size of whitetails is in the lower 48 states, and how we don't account much about that difference in bullet construction discussions. It does make me understand why some guys feel just fine with some of the lighter bullets with thin jackets at high speed I guess.
The deer I shot with my bow this year was a representive specimen for his age around here. He dressed at 212 which puts him at about 250 on the hoof if you believe the chart on the scale.
There are plenty of does around here (we call them BFD's...Big Fat Does) that easily go 160-170 dressed. I wonder who has the biggest average size deer and who has the smallest....and if you feel that what may be adequate for the smallest is also fine for a 250-275 buck quartering toward you at 40 yds with a pistol bullet going 2700 fps?
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Post by dans on Nov 15, 2009 9:38:48 GMT -5
I have weighed a bunch of NE Indiana deer and a good big doe will field dress at 115-20 pounds the biggest I ever weighed was 154. Bucks will go 130 to 150 and really nice bucks will dress at 200 plus. My biggest field dressed 220. I bought a scale years ago and it has given me a new perspective on how much deer weigh. Most people over estimate the weight of deer espeshally after they have drug them out. I try to use bullets that will do the job in the most adverse conditions on the biggest deer I will encounter. I like Barnes bullets and try to use them exclusively.
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Post by ozark on Nov 15, 2009 18:52:48 GMT -5
I have weighed a lot of deer killed in this area of Arkansas (North Central). I killed one that weighed 193 field dressed. 160 pounder bucks are above average weight for adults. Does seldom field dress above 90 lbs. Generally the farther south you go the smaller the deer. I had never thought of matching the bullet to the area size. Wilms, you are a thinker. Shoot two deer with the same bullet in the same body area and they will often react totally different. Some will drop instantly and some will go a quarter mile.
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Post by jims on Nov 15, 2009 20:47:45 GMT -5
A deer I took two years ago yielded just over 100 pounds of meat deboned. I do not know what the live weight would be.
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Post by ET on Nov 15, 2009 20:48:56 GMT -5
Wilmsmeyer
Good point about deer size & weight versus bullet and velocity used with particular bullet.
As I don’t really need long range shooting most times I prefer keeping the velocity at a level that can still reach 200yds effectively and perform well at close range. With a velocity of 2300fps with a 250gr bullet such as the 250SW this seems to be the ticket for me right now with my 10ML-II. Yes at close range that bullet will fragment some and as I prefer boiler room shots it does a number on the vitals. So far have never had to go further than 60-yds to a downed deer with this load and am maintaining a 1-shot 1-kill record. Also have shot deer ranging from 140-over 200 plus lbs.
But one other factor that plays a big role is shot placement. You gotta put it were it counts to do the most lethal damage.
Will probably find a better load in the future but for now I have a winning combination that just keeps proving itself.
Ed
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Post by Dave W on Nov 15, 2009 20:49:03 GMT -5
For WV, 100-125 lbs, but you are talking about primarily 1 1/2-2 1/2 year olds getting slaughtered by centerfires, very few deer make it to 3 1/2 or older.
For Ohio, most of the bucks I have taken are in the 150-175 lb. range, but I have seen much larger, just can't get a tag on them.
When I hunted WV, all I used were 160gr HPBT's in the 7 Mag, dropped nearly all in their tracks.
In Ohio, I have seen slugs pencil through with slight or no blood trails, especially on longer shots. I am not a fan of that kind of performance especially when long death runs become part of the equation. I would like to be sure a bullet will get through the shoulder, unfortunately the Barnes look better than they shoot in my .50. I'm always going to choose accuracy over bullet construction since I shoot for boiler room anyways.
If a 275BE can take down a grizzly at 40yds out of a Bad Bull, how tough can a whitetail be? ;D
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Post by smokeeter on Nov 15, 2009 21:25:30 GMT -5
I don't live in the lower 48 but some think of Canada as the 53 rd state. lol. Ontario isn't thought of as a booner province like out in western Canada but we do have our share of big whitetails.
I have posted of a fairly good sized buck that I recently shot while bowhunting in southern Ontario in the bowhunters forum and he dressed out at 279lbs. I don't have the live weight but I estimate him at well over 300 lbs. This is not an uncommon weight for some of the mature bucks that we have roaming the woods where I hunt , in fact one of a fellow party member shot one bruiser that tipped the scales at 374 lbs. dressed several years ago.
As far as bullets , for this size deer I've killed some pretty big bucks with regular XTP 300 gr. bullets as well as the 300 gr. Remington , mind you I modified them to my spitzer point. I don't know if the reforming work hardens the copper to help them hold together better or not but I haven't had any issues with them not being enough to handle these guys. In fact I've shot mature bull moose with the Remingtons but I have recently gone to the noslers in 260 gr. and 280 gr. just to have the extra insurance and I haven't been disappointed so far.
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Post by whelenman on Nov 16, 2009 7:02:29 GMT -5
Around here we have small deer. A 125-130 lb. live weight doe is a monster and if a buck pushes 200 lb. live weight he is a monster. Not far away though in Catoosa Management Area the deer run larger since they are from Northern strain deer that were stocked years back.
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Post by chuck41 on Nov 19, 2009 21:35:53 GMT -5
Here the deer run much smaller that in a lot of areas. I suspect that soil fertility has a lot to do with it. I know they kill bigger deer in the northern part of the state where Ozark lives and also near the Miss River about 100miles to the East. Here we see about the same as Whelenman described.
I killed a nice 8 point a few years back that I failed to weigh until after he was quartered. The four quarters totaled 125#. That was no hide, feet, guts, or head so I suspect he pushed close to 200# on the hoof, but he was very unusual. We weigh most of our deer before dressing them and most that we see here in the camp for bucks are 120 to 165# and does from 80 to 120#.
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Post by tar12 on Nov 22, 2009 9:45:57 GMT -5
Around here we have small deer. A 125-130 lb. live weight doe is a monster and if a buck pushes 200 lb. live weight he is a monster. Not far away though in Catoosa Management Area the deer run larger since they are from Northern strain deer that were stocked years back. The doe in my picture of the triple take field dressed 147.I kill several does each season that run at least this big and usually get at least one around the 200 lb mark.I have a picture of a doe I shot several years ago that went over 200 lbs field dressed.If I can figure out to get it on here I will. |
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Post by whelenman on Nov 22, 2009 9:52:19 GMT -5
Around here we have small deer. A 125-130 lb. live weight doe is a monster and if a buck pushes 200 lb. live weight he is a monster. Not far away though in Catoosa Management Area the deer run larger since they are from Northern strain deer that were stocked years back. The doe in my picture of the triple take field dressed 147.I kill several does each season that run at least this big and usually get at least one around the 200 lb mark.I have a picture of a doe I shot several years ago that went over 200 lbs field dressed.If I can figure out to get it on here I will. I've been on the same lease here in East Tennessee for 12 years hunting some very good property with several other hunters. We always dress everything at the cabin and get live and dressed weights. The heaviest doe we ever had only had a live weight of slightly over 130. The heaviest buck I've personally harvested off this property went 180 live weight. Your venison in the freezer to number of shots ratio sure beats ours. |
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Post by tar12 on Nov 22, 2009 19:58:54 GMT -5
There is a write up in the picture section..  |
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Post by ozark on Nov 22, 2009 20:04:32 GMT -5
Chuck mentioned soil fertility as maybe having something to do with deer size. I think that has a great deal to do with it. The soil here isn't capable of growing the corn and beans that you see up in Illinois and Iowa. The largest buck I have killed in this area dressed out just under 200 lbs. Live weight was probaly around 230. Minerals from the soil naturally goes into the plants that deer eat. The last few years several people have been feeding corn that is grown where the big deer live. Our deer are growing better antlers and are bigger than they were on average just a few years ago.
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