223 for deer?

[dxt20]

i have a dpms 223 and i reload for it using 62 grain Barnes triple shock bullets and i also have 68 grain bthp hornady match bullets. a big buck in my area will weigh about 220 pounds live weight. would a 223 do enough damage to quickly take a deer down. or would i be better with a larger caliber. i have a 7mm-08 but its a Remington and the thing will not close the action without the firing pin dropping and the safety will not go back on. funny thing is i sent it back to the factory for repairs and it came back messed up ... not a fan of remington anymore.and of course Remington does not want to back up their warranty. and i do not know if i am going to order a savage in 308 yet or wait. your opinion will be appreciated

[ozark]

The .223 with the right bullet will certainly take a deer down when the bullet is placed in a good spot. However, I would not call it the ideal deer rifle. There are many cartridges available to choose from. You mentioned a .308 which is a good choice but I think that a slight majority of deer hunters have went to the .243 with complete satisfaction. That is my favorite deer cartridge. The 7mm-08 should be repaired by any competent gunsmith and that would also do the job nicely. So many good ones out there it is harder to go wrong than be right.

[wilmsmeyer]

I agree with Ozark. However, a rib shot with a good bullet will do the job fine. Seen it.

[dougedwards]

Aug 25, 2009 17:31:44 GMT -5 dxt20 said:

i have a dpms 223 and i reload for it using 62 grain Barnes triple shock bullets and i also have 68 grain bthp hornady match bullets. a big buck in my area will weigh about 220 pounds live weight. would a 223 do enough damage to quickly take a deer down. or would i be better with a larger caliber. i have a 7mm-08 but its a Remington and the thing will not close the action without the firing pin dropping and the safety will not go back on. funny thing is i sent it back to the factory for repairs and it came back messed up ... not a fan of remington anymore.and of course Remington does not want to back up their warranty. and i do not know if i am going to order a savage in 308 yet or wait. your opinion will be appreciated

Sounds like you may have the Remington model that has the J-lock. I have a Rem 700 in .243 with the J-lock but have never had that particular problem. But before I knew what was going on with the thing it gave me fits. I just bought a tool to turn it to unlock and it solved my problems with it. Some have complained that the lock retarded trigger break but mine is very smooth. I would demand that Remington fix it.

Doug

[jims]

The .223 will work but IMO a bit marginal, I would much prefer the 7mm-08 or the .308, especially for that size deer.

[raf]

IMO the 223 is a little light. Sure, a perfectly placed shot will do it but who makes perfect shots. I have 3 CF rifles, a 243, a 30-06 and 300 WSM. They all worked for me. In fact I shot my biggest WT buck, which scored 180, with the 243. Dropped him in his tracks.

[whyohe]

i agree with the others. the .223 is a bit light. i know of a guy who shot a deer 7 times with a 22-250. the shot placement is critical for deer. the 308 is the better choice btween the two but i bought my dad a 243 and he has gotten deer befor with this caliber. you have alot of better choices out ther IMO.

[dougedwards]

.223 is perfect for deer if you hit them between the eyes

[ozark]

Between the eyes does the job but is a bit low 1.5 inches above the eyes but on eye level is a more sure shot. LOL

[davewolf]

My grandfather shot every buck he ever took with a .222. I shot one doe with it, for tradition's sake and put it away for varmints. I dropped the deer in it's tracks but shot it just below the eyes, but between them.
I've taken a good 100 deer with a .308...but I'm not a Big savage fan. Mines a Sako, but they're pricey. Shop around a good choice would be a Ruger.
Have a great day!
Dave

[chuck41]

The .223 will work. I have killed several deer with my Mini-14 and none ran over 30 yards with shots placed in the lung area. All were complete pass-thrus and left a good blood trail on deer in the 120 to 140lb class. All were shots of less than 100yds.

The 7mm-08 is likely a better choice and surely any competent gunsmith should be able to fix your problem. I have a Stevens 7mm-08 that I purchased recently, but have yet to shoot a deer with it. Nice rifle and great caliber though.

Given the choice between my .223 and the 7mm-08 I would use the first for carrying (its short and handy) and the second for hunting from a stand or across a bean field where longer shots might be likely. My choice has more to do with nature of the rifles than the caliber.

[ozark]

When smaller calibers like the .223 is discuss shot placement is emphasised. That is as it should be but that is equally true with larger calibers. I have spent many hours tracking deer for others that had been poorly hit with the larger popular calibers. Sometimes for miles and in some cases unsuccessful. My point is that shot placement overrides all other considerations including calibers for deer. Some feel that if they are using a large distructive bullet that they can be less concerned about shot placement. Poor shot placement is the mark of a poor hunter regardless of rifle or caliber. Sight in carefully, develop good shooting techniques and when it is crunch time put that bullet in a place that leaves no doubts about it causing a quick death. Is that fair to ask?

[deercrook]

Yes a 223 will kill a deer good as a big gun but got to put a good shot on them like head or neck i like the neck it does not move as much deer hit the ground and stay there. I have the 7mm-08 it is to me a little big but does a fine job on them just got to watch what on the other side will go a long way

[PeteVS]

These are all good points, especially about shot placement. I would only add that my concern with a light caliber like the 223, is that the deer may run farther than with a heavier caliber such as 308 or 30-30 etc. If you hunt thick cover, or are hunting at the end of the day a quick kill may help avoid lost deer. And if you have that worry in your mind, it will affect your hunting. My opinions of course. Pete

[ozark]

Please don't attack me. I think shot placement is very very important regardless of the caliber or bullet used. A cannon can take a front leg off but that isn't going to get the deer for you. The better hunters are going to do their best to put that bullet precisely where it will do the job quickly and humanely regardless of size or power. I know my shot selection and aiming points are the same with all caliber rifles. I use a .243 because: 1. It is accurate, fast and has little recoil. 2. I has proved to me that it will anchor deer with authority and humanely. 3. Because of my using it on crows and other pests it has proved itself as a multiple purpose rifle.
I would use it on black bear but elk, moose and brown bears would make me feel under gunned with it. The ,223 is a super little cartridge and would effectively take whitetail deer for me. But it would take me a few seasons to build up the confidence that I already have with the .243. Not just any .243 My Savage .243. LOL

[wilmsmeyer]

I'd bet money that most of the "best" poachers would feel WAY over gunned with a .223 on deer.

To elaborate on what I posted earlier in this thread....

One of our group has a large veggie business and got some nuisance permits 3 years ago to kill 10 deer. He killed 10 with 10 shots with his NEMF .223....behind the shoulder each time...most shots were over 100 yds and up to 300 yds. He did it with 50 gr vmax handloads that he used for woodchucks. This guy can hit most woodchucks out to 300 yds on a calm day. All deer were in his feilds and standing or feeding calmly.

So...obviously it can be done with shot placement. It's not the weapon to use on a severe raking shot on a quartering-on stud buck....but neither is a 55 gr NBT loaded to 4000 fps in a .243. It's placement and bullet selection combined. Some (including me) wouldn't want a 250 gr .451 XTP @ 2700 fps either for the raking frontal shot!

Nothing ever beats a bullet that goes through at any angle and peirces multiple vital organs. .223 is marginal for the masses out there that run and gun under pressure but fine in the cool hands of a markman. If it were my only gun, I wouldn't go hungry or need a flashlight to find a deer.

[dans]

A old friend of mine killed 4 elk with the 243. It was his only center fire rifle. He had killed hundreds of ground hogs with it and knew his gun and load. He shot them in the neck out to 300 yards and none of them ran.

[tcmech]

I don't personally use a 223 for deer hunting only because it is illegal to hunt them with anything smaller than a 23 caliber here in Virginia. If it were legal I would be using my AR for a lot of the hunting that I do.

I currently use a savage 110 in 243 for most of my center fire hunting because it just plain works. I also have other larger caliber rifles that I don't use as much, but around here the deer are small, and 243 is all (if not more) gun that you need.

[jims]

Ozark: I had to chuckle a bit, from a man that can down a black bear with a .17. As said however shot placement and bullet type can be critical.
One of the old ivory hunters killed a bunch of elephants with a 6.5mm. ;D
Confidence in your rifle and load help.

[Tarheel]

Sounds like the creep in your trigger for your 7mm-08 is adjusted to far out. I would take it to a qualified gunsmith, I doubt it would be expensive. At worst, it may need a new trigger assembly. Plus it is a better deer caliber. The 223 would be OK if you could/would shot the deer in the head or neck, but I wouldn't rely on it for body shots especially on big bodied deer. IMO

[tcmech]

I know this is kind of comparing apples to watermelons, but at 100yds a .440 patched round ball hits with approximately 350 ft lbs of energy. Meanwhile back at the present a winchester 64gr super x power point has 1003 ft lbs of energy at 100yds. I personally would not feel a moments worth of regret taking a shot with my ar at 100yds with this ammo. I know that I would be more selective about my shot choices than I would be with my 243, or my 300wm, but that is probably a good thing.

[Tarheel]

Kenetic Energy is kind of misleading when determining lethality. Ex- a 220 Swift with a 50 gr. bullet has more energy @ 200 yds than a 200 gr. 35 Remington but which had you rather shoot a bear with? IMO

[tcmech]

At 200 yards I probably would not shoot at a bear with anything, at a hundred yards I will shoot a deer with a 223.

[ozark]

I have found that black bear are as easy to kill as deer. Maybe a little easier. Any rifle suitable for deer would be adaquate for black bear. Brown and the larger bears are probabley a different class animal.

[Tarheel]

Yeah, but what I was suggesting was that the kinetic energy formula put more value on the velocity rather than bullet weight.

Black bears aren't especially tough to kill, but you would want a heavier/stronger constructed bullet to consistently penetrate the tougher hide and fat before you reach the chest cavity. Plus, some of the bear hunters I know like large diameter projectiles because the fat won't close the hole up as easy for a better blood trail. IMO

[screwbolts]

I have harvested several deer with the 223. I was using a 50 gr. Rem bullet Soft point. It will do a great job for you, just keep it in the lungs and the lights will go out fast. the Barnes bullet you wrote of will certainly give you complete pass threw. I would not hesitate to use a 55 gr Corelock or a Hornidy 55 gr spire point. Good Hunting.

Ken

[12ptdroptine]

My grandfather fed his family of 14 children mostly from hunting in the great depression. He told me of countless deer that he and my uncle's took with a .22 rim fire. He told of head and neck shot's that dropped them right there. I believe you can kill just about anything with just about anything... IF it cant kill you first. However I think one has to make the choice for himself. IF I have to make a marginal shot...Will it be less effective than a larger caliber?... YOU have to make the shot and only you can make that decision at that time and place. And shot placement is the most important thing. Drop