|
|
Post by sincyrman on Mar 21, 2009 8:07:16 GMT -5
I have to get this off my chest. Last year I shot a buck at about fifty yards, almost broadside. At the shot, he kicked up off his hind legs, almost doing a "Handstand" and ran off. I figured it a was low chest hit. I climbed out of my tree and reloaded. Just as I was putting the primer in, I heard a shot some distance off, in the general direction athe deer had gone. I followed the deer for about 100 yards when I heard another shot, about 60 yards in foront of me. When I got there, there was a guy filling out his tag. I asked how hard I had hit the deer. He said that the deer wasn't wounded. I informed him that I was following a blood trail. He then sad that the deer was standing when he shot. I rolled the deer over and found my bullet hole, low in the chest, I believe it was a liver hit. I am confident that I would have recoverd the deer, and probably not far from where I was standing.
This guy had no interest in blood trails or bullet holes. His only interest in the deer was getting his tag on it. He called friends to help him drag the deer out of the woods. I asked him if it mattered that I was following a blood trail. He said that he was fine with that "The deer was standing when he shot". I left before I did something stupid.
I know the laws are different in every state, so forget the laws. Ethically, whos deer was this?
|
|
|
|
Post by davewolf on Mar 21, 2009 8:43:05 GMT -5
Legally in Pa, it was the other guys deer, unfortunately. Ethically it was most likely yours. I don't think that there's a hunter with a lot of boot-wear that this hasn't happened to.
Unfortunately, it would be next to impossible to enforce a who-ever hit it first. But I fully understand your frustration--it's happened to me on more than one occassion.
But, there are people out there-like in all walks of life--that would steal your deer in a heartbeat.
A few years ago, I shot and mortally wounded an 8-point and someone beyond me, as I picked-up the blood trail shot it 4-more times...basically making hamburg out of what had been a 'good deer.' But, 5-days later I took a great 11-point out of the same hollow, called the guy that had stolen mine to come see it--he never did.
Have a great day!
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by ozark on Mar 21, 2009 9:49:04 GMT -5
In Arkansas it used to be the rule of first blood. I don't know what the law is now. It has never happened to me so I don't know what I would do. I think much would depend on the attitude of the other hunter. I would be in a mood to maybe help him field dress the deer, or perhaps pick up his rifle and say:"I have been wondering for a long time who stole my rifle."
One has to be pretty dirty to claim a deer that they meerly gave the finishing shot to. At first read I didn't want to go so far as to kill him but now I am consideing that as a good option. LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by mshm99 on Mar 21, 2009 11:55:21 GMT -5
Ethically , he was yours. Legally his. Him acting like an A_ _hole would raise my hackles too. My nephew shot one pretty far back and he blood trailed it 500 yards over to my spot where I put one through the boiler room before my nephew got there, got down and had to shoot it again. When he got to the deer we worked it out.It had a lot of holes in it, so nobody could say for sure who hit where. I had extra tags, so I tagged it and kept the meat, he was happy with the head and got to keep hunting. Everybody happy. I feel like there is always room for compromise.
Apparently God blessed you composure.
I hope you get to return the favor to Mr. A_ _ hole.
MSHM
|
|
|
|
Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 21, 2009 12:50:12 GMT -5
These are tough calls and I guess this is an argument for DRT....areas where this is likely to happen with competition. State land, shared properties or bordering properties.
In NYS I think it would have been the other guys deer. Ethically???....well, a thorough, complete autopsy would be nice, but not likely to happen in the woods with someone like the other guy with a knife in one hand and a tag in the other. It helps when 2 reasonable sportmen can peice things together rationally and make a sportsman like conclusion. Not always the case. That's when laws and good personal judgement take over. Fight it or let it go. Whatever you do, you can't cause a dangerous situation...risk your life or be the bad guy.
It really gets hairy when the deer is trophy grade. People get weird and fired up. I know that if a great big buck came limping my way mortally wounded, I'd let that deer go to the other guy everytime. Who the heck wants someone elses glory?
You did the right thing. It comes down to a deer. No sense getting in trouble...or worse. These are tough things to deal with.
I have only had one altercation in the deer woods. My friend shot his first buck early in the am. Came back to get help. I went with him 3 hrs later to gut it for him and help drag. 2 guys were just getting to the deer as we did. Both of our parties had permission to be there. One guy said he shot it 10 minutes ago. I said no way...it was my friends deer. I went to the deer and lifted it by the rack....obvious rigamortise! He still claimed it. I asked him what kind of shells he was using. It was Foster slugs. I said, why is this hole plugged with a sabot? (My friend had to coup it at close range...spine hit initially...with a Rem copper solid sabot.) Well, we finally made our point, stood our ground, got the deer and 18 yrs later, I still think about that day a lot. By the way...a very small basket rack 8 pt.
This story is a little different then yours but I can relate to the feelings. Hunting pressured areas, small plots close to people you don't know will bring about these situations. For you, I say go for bones...break them down. Pass marginal shots when they appear.....or be prepared for the next time.
|
|
|
|
Post by sincyrman on Mar 21, 2009 13:26:48 GMT -5
Wilmsmeyer,
This was a small basket 7, I've shot better. I hunt alone so had little supprt at the time. Looking back at it, this guy didn't appear as excited as I usually get when I shoot a deer. Probably hard to be proud of what he was doing.
I,m not a fan of the DRT shot, due to the meat loss, but maybe I will think differently the next time. I've hit other deer in the liver with other weapons, rifle or bow, and they usually only travel about 1 hundred yards then lay down. I wasn't proud of the shot I made, but when I saw the blood trail, I knew I would find the deer.
I just hope he choked on it!
|
|
|
|
Post by DHinMN on Mar 21, 2009 13:41:23 GMT -5
Here is a trick I have heard about but never had to use. If you have a deer down and are going for help or to get the truck, cut the tongue out of the deer in a zigzag fashion and take it along. If you get back there and some one is claiming your deer pull out the tongue and that should be proof of whose deer it is. Remember you are dealing with people with loaded guns and there are some people that will do anything for a deer.
Also IMO if you shoot a deer and have to trail it and some one else puts a couple more holes in it, just as well let him have it. With that many holes in it, it will be a lot of waste meat. A deer is just not worth the potential trouble if you have to fight someone else for it.
A few years back six people got killed over deer hunting rights in a neighboring state. We don't need trouble like that.
|
|
|
|
Post by tcmech on Mar 21, 2009 15:10:24 GMT -5
I am not sure who would legally own the deer here in Virginia, I don't think I would take one that was about to expire when I shot it IF the person who shot it first came along and wanted it.
|
|
|
|
Post by huntingmike on Mar 21, 2009 19:17:50 GMT -5
The old saying here is possession is 9 tenths of the law.
I personally will give the deer away if there is any question who put it down.
In the past while bow hunting public land, I have had different friends have deer taken by other hunters. When I hunt public land I am very careful with shot placement and take up the track as soon as I can. You will have less conflict that way. I try to take DRT shots with a gun. If I have a doubt about the hit I will wait before taking up the trail and take the chance I might lose the deer to someone else. If they want it so bad they are willing to steal it I hope it will keep them from starving.
|
|
|
|
Post by whyohe on Mar 21, 2009 19:59:58 GMT -5
i'll be the different one here. where i grew up hunting it was always the final shot claims it. that is pretty much what it is here in pa. i personally do not want to see a wounded deer go by, buck or doe, with out finishing it off. why should i let the animal suffer any longer on the chance some one may be tracking it or maybe they find it. just last year i shot a buck that was not fatally wounded had its lower leg nearly shot off and i even didnt get a good shot and had to track but got it about an hour after start tracking. 2 hours later my hunting buddy ran into a guy tracking it on my father-in-laws property after i had already taken to be butchered. i give kudos to this guy for giving that kind of effort.
i have seen to many deer here that went only 50 yards and no one claimed it cause it wasnt DRT. one year me and my buddies found 7 deer like that and the furthest one ran was 80 yards and it really wast that thick of brush. now if some one came there just as i got there or shortly after and there was any question on whos shot did it in , im not going to get shot over a deer, they can have it.
i understand your delema but where do you make that limit. if it drops in front of me and i dont need to shot or it is expiring and i just quicken its death, it is the other fellows as long as he comes to claim it. i actually helped a guy get his deer and we discussed before hand that if i have the shot does he want me to finish it for him and he said yes dont let it suffer or run and i agreed it was his before hand. i was with him helping him track.
we are not "trophy" hunter just meat hunters and just filling tags so maybe thats my differance. i would not get angry at any one for claiming a deer i didnt drop under 50 yard of being hit. and they had to shoot it. that is just the way i am. id be a bit dissapointed if it was a HUGE buck but thats the breakes IMO.
it happened to my dad 5 years ago, he hit a deer it went 100 yards, stopped and another guy shot it. my dad knew it was probably downed buy the second shot but tracked to make sure. a 12 year old boy had shot it as it stood infront of him and his grand dad. he said they both looked proud. he asked if it was already hit and the gental man said he wasnt sure they had just gotten there. so they both looked and both shots where fatal but the boys did it in. both basket shots. they man asked if he wanted it but my dad said no you finished it and that is what counted. the boy was grinning ear to ear and my dad comlimented him on shot and shook both their hands and went back to his spot.
|
|
|
|
Post by ozark on Mar 21, 2009 20:30:17 GMT -5
A lady went bear hunting but was told that if she shot a bear others might try to claim it as theirs and she would need to take on a protective and if necessary an agressive attitute. After getting positioned she seen large black bear across the ravine moving slowly.
She took perfect aim as instructed and fired. Immediately she crossed to her animal and a man was already there. She pointed her rifle at the man and told him she had heard of his kind, that it was her bear and that he was not getting it. He was naturally afraid but said, Lady, its your bear and I will not take it from you but please let me remove my saddle and bridle from it.
|
|
|
|
Post by davewolf on Mar 21, 2009 20:35:44 GMT -5
Good thread and I would agree with most of what has been written. Another method we use, if for some reason we have to get help to get it out, is fill out the deer tag and stuff it in the ear.
My hunting buddy finished off his nephews deer two years ago, a nice 3 1/2-year old 8-pt. He had to track it and then called his nephew on a walkie talkie. "Come and get your deer." He said.
Interesting perhaps is, back when I guided bow hunters, I told them to come and get me if they had hit a deer if they had any concerns. Over the years, I recovered all but two out of over 100. One was shot in the leg and I ended up in a rattlesnake den, and on the other, I found the gut pile.
But, a deer is nothing worth fighting over--everyone is carrying out there!
Have a great day!
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by dougedwards on Mar 21, 2009 21:13:32 GMT -5
I agree with DaveWolf. Legally the deer is probably the finder's property but once you make an appeal there is not much more you can do. A stinking wild animal is not worth fighting for especially when the other guy is armed. It is a tough situation that you can walk away from and hunt another day.......or find a more secluded area to hunt.
Doug
|
|
|
|
Post by youp50 on Mar 26, 2009 22:16:08 GMT -5
It seems to me that if you would have been in Michigan and complained to the law, the CO would simply take it fom both of you.
|
|
|
|
Post by chuck41 on Mar 28, 2009 13:53:08 GMT -5
I think whoever kills it probably owns it. However, if I shot a deer that somebody was trailing I would offer to share it.
A few years back here in Arkansas if you shot a deer that someone's dogs were trailing that guy would claim a quarter. My hunting buddy had that happen to him. Dogs showed up after he had already dragged it up to his truck. Where we hunt now is on leased land. Anyone tries something stupid like that is gonna have a trespassing charge pressed on him.
|
|
|
|
Post by 6ptsika on Mar 30, 2009 2:50:18 GMT -5
Over the years I've hunted quite a bit in Virginia , Maryland and Pennsylvania . And a little in Montana , Alabama and Maine .
I usually hunt on private property when I can to help keep myself out of these situations as much as possible . However in PA and MD I "have" hunted a fair amount on public land .
The last year I hunted in the Tobyhanna State Forest I killed a decent 8 pointer . I was sitting in a tree about 16 feet up and popped the deer at about 60 yards with a 300 RSAUM and I watched it run 30 yards and roll over dead .
As I was working my climber down the tree I saw a guy come sneaking up from the same direction as the deer . So I got down and walked over to where the deer was and the other guy was standing there . I was kinda expecting a little difficulty in this situation , but all he did was congratulate me and ask me if I needed any help ! I told him no I was fine and thanked him for the offer !
That was the only time I "thought" I might have a problem . I am sure this guy had been pushing the deer before I shot it and no it wasn't wounded . Matter of fact it was with a spike and four or five slicks . This happened to be the first year PA started with antler restrictions .
|
|
|
|
Post by Buckrub on Mar 31, 2009 16:31:17 GMT -5
This is why I don't------and won't------hunt public ground. If it comes to that, I'm a 100% crappie fisherman year round.
No one within deer running distance of me would do that. So......this is a tough one for me, because it's literally impossible to occur where I hunt. Well, it IS possible I guess that a wounded deer would cross the main road bordering our camp, but in 20 years we've never had it happen.
I'm way too much of a hothead. I am afraid of what I'd do. However, at this age, I think what I'd say is "Well, you wasted one of YOUR tags on this sorry deer that I never should have shot at, so I guess you're done for a while. I'm sure the GAME WARDEN will want to check you out and make sure you have done everything right. And I suppose that next week I can hunt this area all by myself since I doubt you'll be here. Right? And oh by the way....what was the last time you got audited for your State Income Tax? And when was the last time the State Police gave you a ticket?"................and then I'd turn and say "I'm leaving now, but I swear I'm tempted to shoot your a$$ before I go"...........and then I'd just leave.
And yep, that's all a big bluff. But I betcha a dollar to a donut it works.
|
|
|
|
Post by deercrook on Sept 8, 2009 6:17:41 GMT -5
I would like to say cut the tip of tail off and take it with you some people will take a gutted deer and say it is there's had it happen to me came back to get on 4 wheeler deer is gone so got on trial caught up with him and ask what are you doing with my deer the guy said it was his deer i said you are not to be hear at frist and when do deer have the tips of there tail's cut off and pulled it out of my coat the man look at the deer tail and turn red in the face a told him if you need that deer that bad kept it he said was out of work i just felt bad and mad i just left it to him two years or so ran in him at a sale he said he was sorry about it and trid to give some money said and i got mad about it all over again i know there are some real winner out there
|
|
|
|
Post by BOBinIN on Sept 9, 2009 11:53:15 GMT -5
The deer belongs to the hunter who "killed it".
|
|
|
|
Post by dpoor65 on Sept 9, 2009 12:59:55 GMT -5
Well I happen to agree with chuck41 & BOBinIN If I killed it, I tag it....ask the game warden who has to tag it.....in Indiana if I kill it, I tag it, otherwise that's considered party hunting if you were to tag a deer I killed, and that is illegal in our state....matter of fact I would be fined $500.00, loose a tag and possibly loose my hunting license....so if I shoot it, I'm tagging it... I don't really want to come off as a hard a-- but all things considered is a deer worth breaking the law and the above mentioned?
|
|
