Cost effective 45cal smokeless rifle?

[thelefthand]

Just curious what cost effective options are available for building a 45cal (.452) smokeless ML using all new components. Not really looking to build a 600 yds match rifle/range queen. Just a hunting rifle that's consistently capable of at least 1.5 MOA in the hands of a good shooter. I've taken deer at 300 yds with a center fire rifles. While I'd like to have that capability during ML season, I'm content with limiting my shots to 250 yds or less to better manage recoil and avoid the excessive meat loss that I frequently experience with 300 gr SST. That said, I absolutely want to be able to take ethical shots a little past 200 yds with a 150 yd zero.

Off the top of my head, it seems like the most cost effective route would be starting out with a Savage 110 action from Walmart, Academy Sports, or Cabela's/Basspro and then doing a conversion kit from someone like Arrowhead. Seems like that budget would be around $1,400 plus glass.

Are their less expensive rifles to start with, like an Axis? I wouldn't think the recoil lug system on the cheaper rifles (Axis) would have sufficient strength, but I'm not sure how difficult it would be to add a standard recoil lug them. I own Contenders and Encores, but I'm not sure I really want something built on a break action, primarily because I don't really want an external hammer.

I've kicked this idea around for over a decade now but I haven't done it because my Savage ML does the job and I can't justify spending $1,500 for a hunting rifle that does the same thing my $400 Savage already does. That said, I'm a little over a year shy of 50, and I don't have the affinity for recoil that I did 20 years ago, and its discouraging to loose so much meat when the 300 gr 45cal bullet exits in the off side front leg. I'm not to the point that I'd be willing to spend over a grand to address those issues, but that's always subject to change.

[dannoboone]

Is it a 10ML or a 10MLII? Either way, I would look into
converting it to .45. Options are now limited, but some
have stated that McGowen converted their ML's. This would
be the least expensive route and probably keep the project
under $1K. I converted a 10MLII myself...it is not rocket
science.

[thelefthand]

Mine is a 10ML-II. I'm not totally opposed to converting it, but part of me would like to keep it in its current configuration just because I've had it for so long. McGowen does appear to offer a 45P barrel which I assume is .451 or .452 which I assume was originally intended for 460 S&W barrels. Going that route should keep the price well below $1,000. Probably in the $500 to $600 range.

I was more interested finding out what the options are for starting over from scratch. I know that I can start with a bare Savage or Remington action and fire control group for around $600, and then add a stock and barrel, but I wasn't sure if there was another rifle that served as a good starting point.

[thelefthand]

Looks like Preferred Barrel Blanks offers a .451 barrel blank as well. Don't know anything about them though.

preferredbarrelblanks.com/

[dannoboone]

Dec 1, 2023 10:46:33 GMT -5 thelefthand said:

Looks like Preferred Barrel Blanks offers a .451 barrel blank as well. Don't know anything about them though.

preferredbarrelblanks.com/

Just did a search for them. Apparently affiliated with MGM which
is a good company. The following has photos of the accuracy of one
of their barrels:
www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/preferred-barrel-blanks-the-company.6961887/
Scroll down to comment #10 which has photos of targets.

The barrel on my 10MLII is a .451 barrel. I was advised that it
would be too tight a fit to shoot saboted .400 bullets but my
purpose was to be able to full form .451 bullets. I ordered a
barrel from PacNor (prior to the fire), got barrel drop from
them and sent it off to Swinglock to make a .451 die. The setup
is very accurate.

[thelefthand]

What about converting a Ruger American chambered in 450 Bushmaster?

[thelefthand]

Dec 1, 2023 11:33:27 GMT -5 dannoboone said:

Dec 1, 2023 10:46:33 GMT -5 thelefthand said:

Looks like Preferred Barrel Blanks offers a .451 barrel blank as well. Don't know anything about them though.

preferredbarrelblanks.com/

Just did a search for them. Apparently affiliated with MGM which
is a good company. The following has photos of the accuracy of one
of their barrels:
www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/preferred-barrel-blanks-the-company.6961887/
Scroll down to comment #10 which has photos of targets.

The barrel on my 10MLII is a .451 barrel. I was advised that it
would be too tight a fit to shoot saboted .400 bullets but my
purpose was to be able to full form .451 bullets. I ordered a
barrel from PacNor (prior to the fire), got barrel drop from
them and sent it off to Swinglock to make a .451 die. The setup
is very accurate.

Sweet! My understanding is that a sabotless 45 is generally a lot more accurate and has a little less recoil. The 40 is appreciably less recoil, but about the same accuracy as a 50 cal shooting 45s. If I really want less recoil, I can always back the speed off. I just like the trajectory I get at around 2400 fps. It keeps things relatively flat out to 250 yds which works really well for the properties I hunt. Not sure I'd get much less meat damage from a 40 vs a 45.

After poking around on the internet for a few days, it seems like least expensive option for a 45 cal smokeless ML (starting from scratch) would be to buy a Savage Apex in 450 Bushmaster and have breach plug installed. Seems like that would also have a total cost under $1,000, and have the added benefit of being a second rifle

[lakeplainshunter]

[After poking around on the internet for a few days, it seems like least expensive option for a 45 cal smokeless ML (starting from scratch) would be to buy a Savage Apex in 450 Bushmaster and have breach plug installed. Seems like that would also have a total cost under $1,000, and have the added benefit of being a second rifle ]

I doubt this barrel will have a sufficient shank.

[billc]

I did a 40 cal last year (2022). Found a 700ML at a pawn shop. Got a breech plug and bolt nose from Arrowhead. I installed the bolt nose. Sent the barreled action to McGowen, they installed the breech plug in one of their barrels and installed the barrel on my action. I was in for less than $1K. I could have used the Remington stock, but I don't like the Tupperware stocks so a McMillan carbon fiber Game Warden II stock completed the rifle and almost doubled my price.

I would not hesitate taking a 400 yd shot with that rifle.

[thelefthand]

In my personal opinion, a 40 cal smokeless barrel would be absolutely ideal, especially if the 400 Legend takes of and spurs a little more bullet development. A 35 cal smokeless ML might be equally impressive and offer a slightly better (established) choice of projectiles. .358 rifle projectiles for high performance loads, .355 to .356 projectiles for plinking and hunting under 200 yds. Unfortunately, our hunting regs require us to use a muzzleloader with a barrel diameter of at least 44 caliber so I'll be stuck using a sabot if I want to shoot anything smaller than a 45cal bullet.

[billc]

Dec 13, 2023 14:25:57 GMT -5 thelefthand said:

In my personal opinion, a 40 cal smokeless barrel would be absolutely ideal, especially if the 400 Legend takes of and spurs a little more bullet development. A 35 cal smokeless ML might be equally impressive and offer a slightly better (established) choice of projectiles. .358 rifle projectiles for high performance loads, .355 to .356 projectiles for plinking and hunting under 200 yds. Unfortunately, our hunting regs require us to use a muzzleloader with a barrel diameter of at least 44 caliber so I'll be stuck using a sabot if I want to shoot anything smaller than a 45cal bullet.

Fury, Pitman, and Parker bullets have more .45, .40, .50 cal smokeless muzzle loader bullets than I could ever work up loads for.

[thelefthand]

Good to know. I've not looked a lot into the 40 cal projectiles, so I'll have to check those out. I will say, that I generally prefer an all copper bullet. My ML is the only thing I'm not currently using those in and that's only because I didn't want to put the time into working up a load for one of the Barnes bullets. I'll now be doing that this spring along with (hopefully) getting a CVA Scout converted. I was never happy with the penetration I got from any of the 250gr cup and core bullets, but moving to 300gr addressed that. Problem was that the 300gr retains so much momentum that I end up throwing away a lot of meat from the exit wound. I think a 45cal monolithic will give me the penetration I want and dump more of its energy before reaching the far leg which will help with meat loss. Stepping down to a correctly designed 200gr 40 cal monolithic would (in my mind) be even better.

[billc]

Basically I try for an archery shot to minimize meat loss.

I started my SML journey with 250 gr Hornady XTP in my 50 cal 10MLII. Entrance wound about the size of a coke can exit holes were "normal". Then I went to 0.458 300 gr Remington JHP. I modified the bullet nose with a nose punch and an arbor press (closed the hole and reformed to a round nose). The tougher 45/70 bullets performed well with minimal meat loss.

I then went to a 45 cal SML. Went down the full form path with 0.458 300 gr Furys. Good performance, minimal meat loss on par with the modified Remingtons and a little more accurate.

Then I got the 40 cal. Doing smooth forming of the 0.408 225 gr Furys. Again good performance, minimal meat loss and exceptional accuracy.

Of the deer I have shot with my SMLs only 2 bullets were not pass throughs -- those 2 shots were straight north to south into the brisket. With that performance I don't feel the need to experiment with all copper bullets (that and I didn't want to add the extra step of annealing those bullets).

With the bullets/powder available to a SML shooter you will find a bullet that works for you.

[ported45]

Dec 2, 2023 7:06:24 GMT -5 lakeplainshunter said:

[After poking around on the internet for a few days, it seems like least expensive option for a 45 cal smokeless ML (starting from scratch) would be to buy a Savage Apex in 450 Bushmaster and have breach plug installed. Seems like that would also have a total cost under $1,000, and have the added benefit of being a second rifle ]

I doubt this barrel will have a sufficient shank.

Bushie would only be good if you were going to full-form .452 bullets.

Landriders or for shooting sabots you should look for a 45/70 or 450 Marlin to have a breech plug installed.

[71yella]

Cva scout 45-70, hankins breech plug, plenty of info on the other forum, 300yd gun