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Post by ET on May 19, 2023 14:34:09 GMT -5
This could be a redundant post as the Savage shooters are diminishing and the 50 is being replaced by the 45 and upcoming 40. But I still enjoy shooting the 50. One area that can be a pain is removing and installing the BP. For me it is a piece of cake after I modified my BP removal tool with the addition of welding a 3/8” drive socket onto the tool. Now I have the use of the aid of a ratchet.  In case you wonder what, the mallet is for I use it for extra tightness for the BP and in turn to remove the BP afterwards. I do this is to insure a reasonably tight fit between BP and Barrel mating surface. My original BP removal tool has only 2-teeth and has never given me any problems. I make sure my tool is fully inserted to the BP and keep slight forward pressure on it during Bp installation and start of removal process. Also keep in mind I have 2 screws holding the receiver to the stock. If you don’t have a third pillar, I would replace the bolt retaining screw with a slightly shorter one so that 2-screws support the receiver to the stock. As for coating BP threads I don’t cake the BP threads but just use a coating applied with a small brush. My current coating is Nickel-Based Anti-Seize Paste. This application also applies to my vent liner threads.  This post is not intended for making any recommendations but share my approach to BP removal and installation. I’ve used this approach for many years and will continue to do so. |
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Post by reloader22 on May 19, 2023 22:19:53 GMT -5
Old news but awesome news. Many things change and many things do not. Savage shooters not so much talked about anymore but I bet the Savage guys are like the 30-30. Deer killers who figured out that they could kill deer inside 200 yds WAAAAAAY better than a slug gun used the Savage in their regular season. No further research needed. I think that the original base of guys are still around but the new stuff wasn't needed by them, no matter how interesting it all is.
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Post by ET on May 20, 2023 19:10:25 GMT -5
Reloader22
I agree with your reasoning as I have basically the same mindset. I have an accurate 200yd deer slayer if I do my part correctly.
The Savage 50 does require certain maintenance to get the best from it. Back in the day when many of us were still learning about the Savage SML there was a flurry of posting sharing experience. I miss those days.
I believe there is still some learning to be had with the 50 and will continue some more research. The old lady still has my interest, chuckle.
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Post by mrbuck on Jun 3, 2023 9:13:15 GMT -5
The Old Guys are still around !
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Post by dannoboone on Jun 3, 2023 12:34:31 GMT -5
Envy you guys who were lucky enough to get decent shooting
10MLII's. I modified mine enough times that more $$ has been
put into it than the original cost of this stainless wood
stocked money pit. At least I am now happy with it.
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Post by ET on Jun 3, 2023 20:01:51 GMT -5
The Old Guys are still around ! Okay we are old guys but I like to think of us as veterans who have persevered. |
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Post by ET on Jun 3, 2023 20:31:50 GMT -5
Envy you guys who were lucky enough to get decent shooting 10MLII's. I modified mine enough times that more $$ has been put into it than the original cost of this stainless wood stocked money pit. At least I am now happy with it. My 10ML-II also required numerous modification but I was fortunate enough to be able to do the modifications myself. Me and the old lady spent a lot of time together off range. Now she's a good shooter that put meat in the freezer as long as I do my part. I have no regrets of not exploring other calibers but enjoy following others exploits. |
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Post by dannoboone on Jun 4, 2023 13:26:28 GMT -5
I was able to do all modifications myself as well, but it still
got expensive.
Problems:
1. The scope ran out of adjustment when attempting to raise
POI to bulls eye.
2. It was incredibly difficult to clean the bore. Looking down
the bore, it appeared someone had used a steel brush on a drill
and ran it down the bore. In less than 10 shots, it was throwing
bullets as much as eight inches from the bulls eye.
3. Blow back was ridiculous. At first, BP threads were greased,
but blow back was so severe that the outside of the bolt got
greasy.
Some suggested to get relief of the front scope base if it was
setting on top of the recoil lug. Mine was barely touching and
getting relief didn't work. Ended up getting a 10* or 20* one
piece scope base and that solved that problem. I suspected (and
still do) the threads in the receiver were not cut true vertically.
I eventually traded out the factory barrel for a PacNor .451 and
they also sent the barrel drop which was sent to Swinglock for a
full form die. At that time a lot of guys were going full form. I
thought since I would be shooting only .451-.452 bullets, a .451
barrel would be best. Accuracy was near-at-or under MOA. YAY!!
Severe blow back persisted. By wrapping yellow plumber's tape around
the BP threads, twice, blow back was stopped from coming there, but
it was increasingly worse around the primers! (Back to my theory the
untrue threading for barrel in the receiver.) Primers were totally
blackened on side. Tightening head space for a tighter crush fit did
not give a desired result. Approximately half of the end of the primer
came out clean while the other half was severely carboned. New BP's
gave the same result. Cecil Epps of PR Bullet was claiming LRP system
for the 10MLII seemed to think that would solve the problem, so I
broke down and ordered it. Nope, it didn't. However, someone here
mentioned how they solved the blowback problem in their break-action
using the same system. They used very small O-rings where the LRP
modules closed within the PR Bullet BP. Got a pack of them from
McMaster-Carr. It was necessary to yet again head space, BUT the
problem was FINALLY solved!
I am now happy with my 10MLII, yet it was quite a journey and several
years to get here!!
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Post by ET on Jun 4, 2023 20:18:38 GMT -5
Dannoboone
First thanks for sharing your experience with the Sav. 50.
Blow back at primer was an original issue with my 10ML-II but once I adjusted the head spacing blow back disappeared. Now to booster the ignition capability I recessed the vent liner deeper into the BP. This also reduced my flame channel capacity in half. Still no real blow back.
Now I also keep my BP system clean. I usually clean after 15-shots to keep the flame channel fully open.
I also shoot loads less than 40k peak pressure and normally around 35K peak pressure.
What I don’t understand is your mention of back pressure bypassing the outer surface of the BP. There is a mating surface on the BP that when tightened against the barrel will only allow backpressure to pass through the BP.
Yes, the bore quality has a lot to be desired. For me lapping the barrel made a world of difference and dry patching between shots reduces the rate of fouling.
Then there’s the addition of bedding with a third pillar with my synthetic stock which made a difference.
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Post by dannoboone on Jun 5, 2023 11:46:41 GMT -5
Dannoboone What I don’t understand is your mention of back pressure bypassing the outer surface of the BP. There is a mating surface on the BP that when tightened against the barrel will only allow backpressure to pass through the BP. First of all, I do not have this problem with a converted 700ML, so it is certainly a problem with this Savage. Some things were left out of my post. Current barrel is the third one on my 10MLII. There have been AT LEAST four BP's in attempting to solve the problem. The newer BP's have a 3/8" "nut" so a ratchet wrench can be used. When tight, a whack on the end of the wrench handle should make the BP tight enough. Since the blow back problems have been more or less resolved, I'm 90% satisfied, even though the root cause is still a mystery to me. |
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Post by ET on Jun 5, 2023 13:47:52 GMT -5
Dannoboone
I’m not questioning your thoughts on the Sav. being problematic because the barrel quality was poor in a lot of cases. I’m wondering if the threading in the barrel for the BP could have caused your problem. But like you said we may never know. Just happy hearing you have resolved this issue. I know when ever I resolved issues with my 10ML-II I was a much happier camper.
As for using a whack to tighten my BP I found a medium whack is sufficient to add that little more tightness needed. What I enjoy most is when SML issues are resolved then the focus is on load development and honing shooter skills.
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Post by dannoboone on Jun 6, 2023 11:14:11 GMT -5
Dannoboone I’m wondering if the threading in the barrel for the BP could have caused your problem. I suspected the same on the factory barrel, the same on a .458 barrel, but got very suspicious of another problem when it did the same on the .451 barrel that is now on it. Me think sumtin else is wong!! |
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Post by ET on Jun 6, 2023 16:30:10 GMT -5
Dannoboone
Your situation has got me stumped. My simple reasoning goes back to BP not sealing the bore directing back pressure to go through the BP.
The only commonality with these 3-barrels is same receiver. But I can’t see how the receiver would be associated to your problem.
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Post by cuda on Jun 6, 2023 19:16:00 GMT -5
Dannoboone
How did you tighten the receiver on and did you free float the barrels? I have the original 50 barrel on my 10ML-ll the only thing changed on it was the breech plug. I have shot a .452 3 shot group at 100yds I use a .458 Hornady hollow point in a BCR sabot with 69gr of IMR4198 Win 209. I use white plummers tape on the breech plug Al gave me to test for him. It has a 3/8"x3/8" carbide in it and Al made me a 209 bolt head for my Steven 200 the I put a MacGowen .450-.458 barrel on. I gave Al the measurements off the 223 bolt head he then made it for the 209 to test. That was the first Lugged 209 bolt head for a Savage SA I knew of back then. I had lapped the barrel out with JB Bore Bright. Got a lot of crud out then I used some vale lapping compound in my 50cal when I first got it. It made the loading easier not as rough and it shot really well too. The main thing is after I changed the breech plug I never took the stock screw lose a again. I would take the breech plug out of the open bolt. I had a little blow by the primer but I sanded the end a little so it fit the bolt head better. And it stopped leaking and sealed right up better as the bolt closed too. Back then they did not know what size carbide to use Al had made a few for himself 3/8"x3/8" he ever gave me 2 extra 3/8"x3/8" bushings. Al was a Big Big help to me as I was working on my guns. He runs a machine shop and I was working in one too. Al was and is a great guy to talk to about what I needed to do to get them to really shoot nice. A BIG THANK TO AL FROM ME! I think he still might check on here yet. Back then people threatened him so he left I was emailing him after he left. I think someone did not what him to be the first to get the carbide bushings going. I think I might know who it was too.
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Post by dannoboone on Jun 8, 2023 10:11:17 GMT -5
Dannoboone How did you tighten the receiver on and did you free float the barrels? Not sure what you mean "tighten the receiver". The factory laminate stock had plenty of relief that all barrels free floated. Originally, there was a high place (barely negligible), so I releaved that area and bedded the stock. |
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Post by cuda on Jun 9, 2023 9:33:06 GMT -5
The mounting screws to the stock. By changing the tension of the screws can make it shoot different each time they are changed. Mine is the stock plastic one I set it up on the butt pad snugged both screws a 1/8 of a turn till they were both tight. And left them that way resighted the scope and it hold zero from year to year too. On the stock barrel channel the left side was a little touching. So I took some sand paper then add more to open it up some. My gun is all stock except for the breech plug and scope. And my stock is not bedded.
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Post by dannoboone on Jun 12, 2023 9:59:31 GMT -5
The mounting screws to the stock. By changing the tension of the screws can make it shoot different each time they are changed. And my stock is not bedded. This brings up yet another memory and needed change. I noticed a slight "rock" caused by a high place between the stock mounting screws. So I relieved that area and bedded the stock. It made no difference in accuracy in the factory barrel, but with the .45 barrel, accuracy is not affected when removing/reinstalling the stock. |
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