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Post by charger440 on Dec 17, 2022 18:40:14 GMT -5
If you had to choose from a 10ML-2 large shank or nutless conversion, OR 700-ML To build a SML on, which would you choose and why? Apples to apples saying both used a 26" brux barrel, 1:18 twist, and converted to LRMP ignition modules. 45cal. Pros, cons of each. Im doing the best I can to weigh out the best option strength wise, and always safety wise. I only want to build this once, im not worried about what it will cost. Im aware of the standard action conversions, im just concerned about these 2 conversions. Thanks everyone...
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Post by billc on Dec 17, 2022 19:45:06 GMT -5
I like a shoulder mounted (nutless) as I think they are "stronger" -- more metal in the chamber area.
I like the Savage bolt retention screw as they don't wear out like the 700 ML's screw.
I like that the 700 ML bolt retention screw allows for bolt removal without removing the action from the stock. (yes, you can add a 3rd action screw to the Savage).
I have a 10 ML II and 2 sml 700 MLs and I'm very happy with both platforms. Starting from scratch, I would be satisfied with either action and a shoulder mounted barrel though the nutted barrel is easier for DYI. If I was going with a Savage I would do the 3rd action screw. If both actions were available and the same price I would go with the Remington because there are more options for stocks, rails, triggers, etc.
So final answer: 700 ML, a McMillan Game Warden 2 carbon fiber stock, a Hankins rail, and a Trigger Tech trigger.
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Post by charger440 on Dec 18, 2022 9:27:13 GMT -5
I like a shoulder mounted (nutless) as I think they are "stronger" -- more metal in the chamber area. I like the Savage bolt retention screw as they don't wear out like the 700 ML's screw. I like that the 700 ML bolt retention screw allows for bolt removal without removing the action from the stock. (yes, you can add a 3rd action screw to the Savage). I have a 10 ML II and 2 sml 700 MLs and I'm very happy with both platforms. Starting from scratch, I would be satisfied with either action and a shoulder mounted barrel though the nutted barrel is easier for DYI. If I was going with a Savage I would do the 3rd action screw. If both actions were available and the same price I would go with the Remington because there are more options for stocks, rails, triggers, etc. So final answer: 700 ML, a McMillan Game Warden 2 carbon fiber stock, a Hankins rail, and a Trigger Tech trigger. These are the kind of responses i like seeing. Detailed reasons. Im really looking more at the 700ML recently vs savage. I have niether, but access to a small shank savage but i haven't bought anything yet. I need responses like this that help me weight out my options... thanks bud. |
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Post by dannoboone on Dec 18, 2022 13:40:36 GMT -5
With most builders going almost strictly to CF action conversions,
it will take some serious shopping around to get the job done with
either MLII or 700ML conversions. A barrel threaded for 700 CF action
apparently will not work for 700ML. Don't know about the Savage.
Either way, definitely get the newer rear seal BP.
As far as use, I have both conversions done years ago and find
myself reaching for the converted 700ML much more than the
10MLII.
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Post by jims on Dec 18, 2022 18:44:27 GMT -5
I have both. I prefer the Sav. With the barrel nut it is easy to put on a barrel.
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Post by sw on Dec 18, 2022 20:07:57 GMT -5
I have both. I prefer the Sav. With the barrel nut it is easy to put on a barrel. Me too. |
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Post by sideshow on Dec 19, 2022 11:30:42 GMT -5
Thats a easy answer IF aftermarket options are considered such as stocks or triggers . But even using a used cf stock , its the 700ml . They feel better to me . The Savage is no doubt somewhat more DIY if barrel nuts are used for just 1 caliber. Either 1 needs a up to date bp thats rear sealing regardless if 209 or moduals and a bushing . I have a completed parts pile now for a SS 700ml just waiting on the machinest/Gs opening .
Its a multi use , multi caliber muzzy . Not for everybody id say but i like the idea . A West Texas Ordinance switchlug thats pinned will make barrel swaps with each its own bp a breeze . They usually re-zero bullet impact @100yds 1/2in off or less . A zero cheat sheet will be made so 1 scope for all 3 will be easily done . Smoker 54 and 50 with a 416 5.5 Wilson braked that can go light to medium SML loads/ or stout smoker loads too . Not really needed for most guys but i like the idea of 2750fps bh209 or sml easily with 400yd+ deadly field capability either way . Lazer flat too. All with a carry weight of about 8.5 lb ready to hunt . Factory 40x trigger tuned up to break at 1.5lb or more like glass . Factory curly walnut braced ,lightened, stabilized , pillared and bedded ADL stock with filled in magwell . Bullets from 535gr conicals to 210gr jacketed should cover it all . Simple but sophisticated . 209 ignition all around . I like this go anywhere do most anything budget build mzl idea . Its always legal/appropriate most everywhere 1 of 3 ways .
I see you are looking at a 45 conversion . The 416 route , switch rig is for my own practicle? reasons 1 being Nostalgia , my builds name as well . I have to ask you - why not a 40 ?? I have both a 45 and 40 already .
We hunt bambi with bazookas anyways with these things . The energy is immense !!! Dont get me wrong im.trying to understand your plans for it ??
I get the longer shots ability but how far and how big of critters ?? Yes on the 1 in 18 hopefully a Brux if available . You said its not a money thing so why not a aftermarket up to date action ?? Or a Bergara , Rem ultimate mz , a Paramount or other Rem clone ?? Moduals are really nice to put in a Mesa or Defiance with slide in slot boltface if its cold where you are . Is weight of any importancce for carrying it ?? Youll be easily over 10 lbs+ and more like 12 to 13lb or more before you know it real easy with them fat boomer barrels and lay on your belly stocks shooting prone . . . Do you really wanna blow soccer ball sized holes in a deer with
300grs traveing over 2900 fps if they come in under 200yds ?? Just asking ....
A better one of the Arken scopes i think is your best bet too unless $2K or more has appeal on a regular basis if you shoot alot !!! Those big boomers do like to eat scopes !!! Thats not mentioned alot.........
The Savage as i understand things isnt easy to find parts for the ML2 anymore . Savage aftermarket is also pretty limited . The Remingtom 700ML has i believe more support but Nothing like whats out out there for the cf Remingtons . Most all SA stuff does fit except the bolts . Right now the 700ml parts is in pretty good shape , future ?? Worth considering especially if a big boomer is the plan , shoot alot , or you got decades yet to hunt . Buy a really good muzzlebrake too for a 45 .
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Post by charger440 on Dec 19, 2022 16:05:04 GMT -5
Thats a easy answer IF aftermarket options are considered such as stocks or triggers . But even using a used cf stock , its the 700ml . They feel better to me . The Savage is no doubt somewhat more DIY if barrel nuts are used for just 1 caliber. Either 1 needs a up to date bp thats rear sealing regardless if 209 or moduals and a bushing . I have a completed parts pile now for a SS 700ml just waiting on the machinest/Gs opening . Its a multi use , multi caliber muzzy . Not for everybody id say but i like the idea . A West Texas Ordinance switchlug thats pinned will make barrel swaps with each its own bp a breeze . They usually re-zero bullet impact @100yds 1/2in off or less . A zero cheat sheet will be made so 1 scope for all 3 will be easily done . Smoker 54 and 50 with a 416 5.5 Wilson braked that can go light to medium SML loads/ or stout smoker loads too . Not really needed for most guys but i like the idea of 2750fps bh209 or sml easily with 400yd+ deadly field capability either way . Lazer flat too. All with a carry weight of about 8.5 lb ready to hunt . Factory 40x trigger tuned up to break at 1.5lb or more like glass . Factory curly walnut braced ,lightened, stabilized , pillared and bedded ADL stock with filled in magwell . Bullets from 535gr conicals to 210gr jacketed should cover it all . Simple but sophisticated . 209 ignition all around . I like this go anywhere do most anything budget build mzl idea . Its always legal/appropriate most everywhere 1 of 3 ways . I see you are looking at a 45 conversion . The 416 route , switch rig is for my own practicle? reasons 1 being Nostalgia , my builds name as well . I have to ask you - why not a 40 ?? I have both a 45 and 40 already . We hunt bambi with bazookas anyways with these things . The energy is immense !!! Dont get me wrong im.trying to understand your plans for it ?? I get the longer shots ability but how far and how big of critters ?? Yes on the 1 in 18 hopefully a Brux if available . You said its not a money thing so why not a aftermarket up to date action ?? Or a Bergara , Rem ultimate mz , a Paramount or other Rem clone ?? Moduals are really nice to put in a Mesa or Defiance with slide in slot boltface if its cold where you are . Is weight of any importancce for carrying it ?? Youll be easily over 10 lbs+ and more like 12 to 13lb or more before you know it real easy with them fat boomer barrels and lay on your belly stocks shooting prone . . . Do you really wanna blow soccer ball sized holes in a deer with 300grs traveing over 2900 fps if they come in under 200yds ?? Just asking .... A better one of the Arken scopes i think is your best bet too unless $2K or more has appeal on a regular basis if you shoot alot !!! Those big boomers do like to eat scopes !!! Thats not mentioned alot......... The Savage as i understand things isnt easy to find parts for the ML2 anymore . Savage aftermarket is also pretty limited . The Remingtom 700ML has i believe more support but Nothing like whats out out there for the cf Remingtons . Most all SA stuff does fit except the bolts . Right now the 700ml parts is in pretty good shape , future ?? Worth considering especially if a big boomer is the plan , shoot alot , or you got decades yet to hunt . Buy a really good muzzlebrake too for a 45 . Well i tossed up the idea of the 40 cal but currently the 45 has a better selection of bullets (at the moment). Mainly ive had alot of big game hunts planned and never gotten to them, and its about that time. Plus hopping up one of these gives me the extended range over my knight mountaineer, as well as more balls behind it to lay down a big elk, moose, muley,ram etc. Currently due to certain circumstances the NON FFL is my only option, for now. As far as weight of the gun, not to sound like hulk hogan but i can manage a little extra weight in that category if need be.. but hopping up a non ffl action will get me plenty of gun that i wont have to build a center fire SML in the future. I only plan to hunt in the regular rifle seasons with this. To big for white tail, yea definately but ill be able to do everthing i need in 1 rifle.. that's my main goal, 275 300gr parker at 2800-3k shold reach out and lay down whatever im hunting. Obviously not planning on hunting animals at 1000 yrds but i think you see my idea / plans.. 😊😊 plus its always exciting researching and building new guns. And SML really has me hooked and i haven't even built the gun yet and im planning everthing to go along with it. Very interesting to me. |
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Post by sideshow on Dec 19, 2022 16:45:18 GMT -5
Actually you kinda really need more gun and bullet to shooot a 1000yds than what youre after or so im told . From what i hear the parker bc isnt so either . Pittmans bc is the only one found to be right on from what im told . . How far are you looking to shoot anyway on game ?? A mountaineer doesnt compare at all to these !!! Even a barrel nut 45 can be effective to 500 yds or more . Thats 300gr at 2550 to 2600fps . Theres alot of drop in that too just that far . Its not all that easy to shoot critters further with a 45 . Takes years . Remange barrels have all been stopped to do it yourself too for both actions . Any gunsmith will require id to do this . ATF is all over all this now bud . Better off sticking with that Knight . Or a Paramount . C-ya...... |
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Post by charger440 on Dec 19, 2022 17:20:09 GMT -5
Actually you kinda really need more gun and bullet to shooot a 1000yds than what youre after or so im told . From what i hear the parker bc isnt so either . Pittmans bc is the only one found to be right on from what im told . . How far are you looking to shoot anyway on game ?? A mountaineer doesnt compare at all to these !!! Even a barrel nut 45 can be effective to 500 yds or more . Thats 300gr at 2550 to 2600fps . Theres alot of drop in that too just that far . Its not all that easy to shoot critters further with a 45 . Takes years . Remange barrels have all been stopped to do it yourself too for both actions . Any gunsmith will require id to do this . ATF is all over all this now bud . Better off sticking with that Knight . Or a Paramount . C-ya...... Im not planning on ever shooting 1000 yrds. Not even at paper. 4-500 yrds and that's MAX.... I also don't plan on having this restriction very long on myself either so im building what i can at the moment, which id be fine hunting with it even once i am in clear, i think its a fairly stout build.. I def have the knight as a backup, ill just have to keep the range as close as i can.... but in the meantime ill keep after the build until i hear other wise.. but i like hearing everyone elses ideas and thoughts on this. |
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Post by encore50a on Dec 19, 2022 20:03:38 GMT -5
Your Knight is VERY capable of 500yds and with enough energy. You just have to use a heavier bullet.
The chart below represents 120grs VOLUME of BH209 and a 350gr Arrowhead XLD bullet. The XLD's are extremely accurate with a very high BC. The XLD's have outshot all other manufacturer's bullets, including Parker, Fury and Pittman, at LONG RANGE organized competitions. LONG RANGE meaning 1,000yds.
The chart below is my ACTUAL drops for 1,000yd competition. 120grs VOLUME of BH209. 350gr Arrowhead XLD bullets. Check the bullet's energy at 500yds.
I won 1st place in last June's inaugural match, where we shot 800, 900 and 1 ,000yds at Camp Atterbury, IN. The 2nd place shooter also shot the XLD's. 3rd place went to Parkers, followed by Pittman in 4th. Another match in September proved the XLD to be the winning bullets. |
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Post by charger440 on Dec 19, 2022 20:23:13 GMT -5
Your Knight is VERY capable of 500yds and with enough energy. You just have to use a heavier bullet.
The chart below represents 120grs VOLUME of BH209 and a 350gr Arrowhead XLD bullet. The XLD's are extremely accurate with a very high BC. The XLD's have outshot all other manufacturer's bullets, including Parker, Fury and Pittman, at LONG RANGE organized competitions. LONG RANGE meaning 1,000yds.
The chart below is my ACTUAL drops for 1,000yd competition. 120grs VOLUME of BH209. 350gr Arrowhead XLD bullets. Check the bullet's energy at 500yds.
I won 1st place in last June's inaugural match, where we shot 800, 900 and 1 ,000yds at Camp Atterbury, IN. The 2nd place shooter also shot the XLD's. 3rd place went to Parkers, followed by Pittman in 4th. Another match in September proved the XLD to be the winning bullets.. I would have never thought i would be able to effectively kill game that far with my knight, that energy level is way higher than i thought it would ever be. I simply never gave it a chance to look at the numbers. I just might hang on to it then. I was going to sell it due to building this SML. Might even switch to wanting to use that XLD instead of parker MH like i planned to use in the SML. That's impressive, i wonder what i could get that bullet cranking out of this SML🤔🤔🧐🧐 |
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Post by encore50a on Dec 19, 2022 20:32:12 GMT -5
. I would have never thought i would be able to effectively kill game that far with my knight, that energy level is way higher than i thought it would ever be. I simply never gave it a chance to look at the numbers. I just might hang on to it then. I was going to sell it due to building this SML. Might even switch to wanting to use that XLD instead of parker MH like i planned to use in the SML. That's impressive, i wonder what i could get that bullet cranking out of this SML🤔🤔🧐🧐 My build is very strong. My first node with H4895 is at 2,960fps. With RL17, around 3,200fps.
THESE PROPELLANTS ARE SAFE IN MY RIFLE BUT MAY NOT BE IN ANY OTHER. |
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Post by charger440 on Dec 19, 2022 20:48:28 GMT -5
. I would have never thought i would be able to effectively kill game that far with my knight, that energy level is way higher than i thought it would ever be. I simply never gave it a chance to look at the numbers. I just might hang on to it then. I was going to sell it due to building this SML. Might even switch to wanting to use that XLD instead of parker MH like i planned to use in the SML. That's impressive, i wonder what i could get that bullet cranking out of this SML🤔🤔🧐🧐 My build is very strong. My first node with H4895 is at 2,960fps. With RL17, around 3,200fps.
THESE PROPELLANTS ARE SAFE IN MY RIFLE BUT MAY NOT BE IN ANY OTHER.Ill have to ask the guy building this what he thinks a safe load would be with that bullet.. Yours is smoking fast.. what i seen was 3k with a 275 he had mentioned about this build for me with 76gr imr4198. |
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