Introduction and Story (Savage 10Ml-II)

[muzzledan]

Hello,

My name is Dan, and I hail from Saskatchewan, Canada. Nice to meet you all! Over the past months I have crept these forms in hopes of finding a solution to my Savage 10ML-II blight.

I first looked at MLing with a traditional BP ML. After speaking with a few people the Savage 10ML-II came up in general chitchat. After initial research (RandyWakreman.com), I learned that I should be able to tune the 10ML into 1-2 inch group at 200 yards. I was impressed by this, as well as the fact that smokeless didn't require as much cleaning (with some folks saying they haven't cleaned theirs in years).

I purchased my 10ML-II unused (supposedly as the seller said, it still had the original tag hanging from the trigger guard, it sat in storage for 10 years). It came with Luepold HD Duplex VX-2. It came with 1lb of IMR 4759, Hornady High Velocity Sabots (6751 Black) paired with 240 gr XTP MAGS.

After 2 visits to the range (using 42 gr of 4759), and groups that made little to no sense (Randy W says on his site not to shoot the MAGs so ok), I ditched the XTP MAGs as well as the Hornady sabots. I purchased MMP short black sabots and XTP non mag in 250 gr.

Sadly this combination did not solve my woes. I switched to VV N110 (37 gr). No better. I switched to 250 gr SSTs. No better.

I have now purchased the red crush rib high pressure sabots and will try these with other combinations.

I have been sitting on my 300gr SSTs and VV N120 (potential Elk load) as I would really like this gun to start shooting better with the 250 gr first.

I know many people have been through something similar, groups *cough* 10-12 inches (hard to call that trash a group, its really not and shouldn't be for the ML, or any ML).

Anyway, the scope is coming off for now and I'll head back to the range at some point. I just want to eliminate that part of it if I can right.

It does not have a laminated stock, I am thinking about getting a Boyds, but only if I really must.

I let the barrel cool for 10-15 minutes between shots. I check the breech plug and barrel to ensure its not even remotely warm.

I cleaned my breech plug about 30 shots ago, vent liner maybe has 100 shots and looks good.

Other info: When I shot 3 SSTs for the first time corrected the zero all the way to bullseye, put the gun away, said ok, I'll go to the range in a couple weeks and see it if its still zeroed in. First shot was 6 inches to the right. Second was 5 to the right, and 3 inches low with no adjustment. Shooting the XTPs and XTP MAGs its random at best.

Anyway, thanks all for your input, I am dedicated to having the rifle shoot well and would like to see it soon(ish).

Haven't got to 200 yards yet, this is all at 100 yards.

Dan

[hunter]

It's been years since I have shot a 10ml.
Did you give the barrel a good cleaning before use?
I used 300 gr .458 bullets in a black crushed rib sabot with 42 gr of 4759 with good results.
You need a tight-fitting bullet/sabot combination in the savage.
You may try knurling the bullet to tighten things up a bit and see if that helps.
Make sure your front scope mount is not resting on the recoil lug and
might try open sights to remove the possible scope-mounts being the problem.

[sw]

In addition to the above excellent suggestions - especially the scope mount and the recoil lug.


I think there’s a good chance the the scope may be the problem.
Your N110 load was a bit low.
Try 42g VV110, short or long MMP, lightly knurl a 250 or 300 SST or XTP. Do not use a mag version of the XTP.
You can shoot 2 bullets as quickly as you like but then the cooling periods start.
Drill out any fouling in your BP.
100 shots on ventliner is a lot! Once the size gets >0.035” accuracy starts to go.
209s - most like Fed 209As. I don’t. They foul BPs badly. I prefer CCIms, CCI regular or Win 209s.
Bedding the tupperware stock can really help. Boyds is much better.
I still suspect the scope. The 10 ML2s are brutal on scopes. A tough scope is very important. The VX2 isn’t particularly tough.
The most accurate, consistent load is the rather slow (1980) 42g 5744/300 XTP in an HPH12. If that isn’t <1 MOA, somethings really wrong!

Good luck. Hope this helps.

[muzzledan]

hunter

Thanks for your load info.

With the MMP short paired XTP and SST it is very tight. I ordered a spin jag so alleviate some of this--and they are supposed to help maintain accuracy as well?

The scope is off now so the next visit to the range will tell me more about that. If it does end up being the scope I will ensure when its remounted that front mount isn't resting on the recoil lug.

sw

I actually started by shooting 42gr of VV N110. I can go back to it, but I don't have confidence the gun will shoot better. I will clean my BP again and set my calipers on the on the VL. I suppose I should just go ahead and order some anyway so I have them on hand.

I am using Fed 209As, I'll see if my local gun shop has CCIs--my guess is the Cabela's that put most of them out of business won't.

If I need to bed the stock, I'll probably order a Boyds then.

I'll give it a good once over before going back out with sights. I am with you sw that I suspect the scope. I really hope it is.

Thanks again.

Dan

[dannoboone]

IIRC, people who had the best and consistent accuracy were
shooting 300gr bullets in Harvester sabots propelled by
with 4759 or VV110.

Many of us had a problem with the recoil lug being too high,
interfering with the scope mount. If you remove the screws in
the mount and push the mount forward and reverse over recoil
lug a few times, you should feel no "bump". If you do, file,
grind, or Dremel relief on the bottom front of the mount
enough that it does not rest on the lug.

Boyds stocks are nice but I still bedded them. Should you
keep the tupperware stock, make sure there is enough clearance
in the forearm that it doesn't slap the barrel during recoil.

[sw]

JB bore cleaner can help clean the bore. Liberal use will not damage the bore.

Good luck!

[GMB54-120]

4759 is great for all the common bullet weights but N110 can be very rough on sabots. 4759 and the slower powders are better suited to 300gr bullets unless you want to shooting something slower like a 458 300gr JHP. You gain so little speed with N110 after 40gr.

[mike.dawson]

Right out of the box my ML-II was very accurate. Fav load was 65 gr. N120 Barnes original and the orange MMP sabot worked just fine. The scope issue is real with these guns and they are scope eaters. Change your ventliner, get the crud out of the BP. Reset your scope back to zero and place a big piece of cardboard at 25 yards with a dinner plate in the center. start there. then go to 50 and so on.

[cuda]

What breech plug do you have? If you are removing the bolt your screw tension is always changing. I would buy the carbide breech plug whit the socket head. Then once you get the screws tight never remove them. Use a socket and swivel and extension and ratchet to remove the plug out the open bolt. I have not removed the stock since I put the new breech plug in. I shoot a 300gr Hornady .458 in a BCR sabot on 69gr of IMR4198 and a Win 209. I can shoot a 1" 3 shot group at 100yds too. Each time you change the tension on the stock screws it changes the POI. And what was the air temp? You can not shoot sabots in warm weather it has to be cool out and cool the barrel between shots. And you need to drill out from the primer hole down into the carbide vent liner. The primer will carbon up to seal tight and not leak. I still have the plastic stock on my 10ML-ll 50cal and it is not bedded either. The screws will change the POI by a lot I used a torque wrench to set the screws at first. After the new breech plug the screw were never changed again. And WELCOME muzzledan we are here to help.

[muzzledan]

Hi all, I wanted to give a quick update as to where I am at.

I replaced the vent liner, cleaned the BP and I removed the scope. I was at my local gun shop and the smith there recommended I used the MMP subbase, as well as upping my my load to 40 gr of N110. I was able to shoot a 1.5 inch group with sights at 50 yards.

What a relief.

cuda I am still using the original BP. I was looking at ordering a stainless one from prbullets.com in Manitoba, as well as some additional VLs. I assume the Carbide ones come out of the states somewhere--but would consider it. My typical range day at start of season here on Oct was 15-20 degrees C. The last day I went out with the sights temps were about -7 C.

As I said, I am relieved that with sights and the subbase the gun seems accurate now--so time for a new scope, and then I can play with loads.

Picked up my second WT tag so wish me luck.

Dan

[cuda]

I get all of my stuff from LUKE. www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/savbp_bushing/

[GMB54-120]

If you use Cecils MLII plug you will need to head space your barrel. The PR MLII plug has a shelf in it for the nose of the primer to rest one. Works fine if you have primers that fit correctly. You want the primer to get about .003-.005 crush and it should work very well.