LRMP New 45 Cal. Build

[stanb8]

 I am thinking about building a new 45 cal. Smokeless and was wondering which frame everyone would recommend. I have a Remington ML frame in 209 already but I want the LRMP system so I won’t have to duplex load. Any suggestions about frame, barrel, stock and action would be appreciated. THANKS

[farmerboy78]

I have a Remington 700 with a hankins prefit, that's running a 275gr pittman accumax at 2676fps with 66gr imr 4198. It's very accurate to 600yds

[sw]

I agree that a CF action has it’s advantages, but I don’t think duplex is required if a 209 ignition is used. Nor, does the 700 ML action necessitate 209s. I do not know what conversion is involved.

After all that, I had my 700 ML 40 cal re-actioned to a 700 CF action. So, what do I know?🙂

[billc]

I have a 45 SML on a 700ML action with 209 ignition. 67 gr H4198 300 gr full formed Fury ST2. Never once thought about duplex loads.

[sw]

I started testing the 10ML in 1999 and ML2 about 2000. 1,000s of shots. In 2001 or 2002, I had an airgauged, premium PN 408, 26” barrel with a very robust, proprietary RB 209 BP that has been modified for a bushing and had a MB installed. Kevin Rayhill bedded the Laminated stock and I installed a 1 1/2# TT trigger. So, a lot of money went into this ML2/40 PN. It has worn a Weaver Classic Extreme (1st edition, Philippines) 50mm 2.5x10 from the beginning. It uses a 209 ignition.

Knurled 200SSTs, annealed , knurled 240 CEBs, 195 Bs all shot better than MOA at 200 but opened up @ 300 yards. Various powder loads, 4198, 2015, duplex 110/Varget, velocities from 2600-3000+. All it took for the rifle to become extremely accurate at long range was some smooth sized Pittman AccuMax 225g bullets. Now, with a 110/Varget duplex, it is <1 1/2” 3-shot groups @300 yards with just a 2.5x10 WCE scope!

Then I decided to go with the ultimate and got 2 custom 40s from Jim Groce (jimbob). The 1st is a 16# (18# with scope) robust 40, that is shooting 275 AccuMaxes @2830 , 1” gps @ 300 yards.
The ultralite weighs 8# 1 oz complete with 2x8 Zeiss Duralyt. Titanium action, 1.5 # Bix & Arney, etc. A lot went into weight reduction. Both shoot direct ignition, LRMPs, full sizing verses smooth sizing. The light rifle is shooting annealed 253 Hammers, full sized @2730 at 1/2 moa thru 300 yards. So both are extremely accurate.




Now, to the very important point of this lengthy post. As accurate and nice as these 2 ultimate 40 cal rifles are, my 10ML2/40/209 ignition , 20+ year old technology , is virtually as accurate as my 2 , very expensive , state of the art smokeless muzzleloaders.

Summary. A well bedded 10ML2/40 custom barrel with an AccuTrigger or good SSS trigger, a bushing breechplug (the original Savage plug equipped this way is available from Hank , maybe other sources), a 40 cal smooth sizing die, some good 225-250 g custom bullets (Pittman, Fury, etc) , some 209 primers and you can virtually equal any custom MLer out thru 300-350 yards.

Don’t discount 209 primers. They are sufficient for virtually all smokeless MLing needs.

[1gifford]

A couple of beautiful rifles you have there SEW. How bout a pic of the Savage?

You mention it has a RB breechplug in it. Is it front sealing like the standard ML2 or rear sealing like the aftermarket plugs?

[sw]

Front.

[sw]

I am getting out of the 45 caliber business and will be selling my 45 700ML /Brux with HIS ignition, smooth sizing die and a whole lot of bullets. It looks identical to my heavy 40. After I gather up and inventory all of my 45 caliber stuff, I’ll be putting it on the market place, here and other boards. This will be a great, complete package deal for someone. I’m 75 and down sizing.

[sw]

Yesterday (11/13/2022) 300-400 yards behind my house.

[billyboy]

Oct 23, 2022 9:10:59 GMT -5 stanb8 said:

 I am thinking about building a new 45 cal. Smokeless and was wondering which frame everyone would recommend. I have a Remington ML frame in 209 already but I want the LRMP system so I won’t have to duplex load. Any suggestions about frame, barrel, stock and action would be appreciated. THANKS

www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/700ml-bolt-nose-kit/
www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/700ml_lrmp/

See above the ASG Rem 700 ML LRMP Bolt Nose Kit for Custom Smokeless Barrels. Its Breech Plug has a LONG Flame Channel & Not as Advantageous as the SHORTER ASG G2 LRMP Breech Plug for CF Actions.

 As SEW said "Don’t discount 209 primers. They are sufficient for virtually all smokeless MLing needs." 

I Also Prefer the .40 Caliber & would Consider that if Your State Allows It 

[jims]

That will make a fine, well tested and proven SML for someone. The 209s used in my SMLs have also been trouble free and reliable.

[dannoboone]

Does anyone now produce a barrel for the 700 ML anymore?
If so, it would be very advantageous to machine for the newer breech plugs.

My SML's were converted prior to any known LRMP systems, so they are the 209
versions. The ONLY time I had a FTF was with the 10MLII prior to conversion. It
was a load of 4227 and a 250gr bullet. But since then, after conversion of the
Savage and a 700ML, I have had no misfires (and never again used 4227).

I should add that I use mainly use duplex loads, yet there has never been a
failure with the single powder loads in either rifle.

[sw]

H4227. I have a 1# container (since 1999) with only a tiny bit of powder removed.

IMO, it’s horrible!

FWIW, shooting saboted loads in 45 and 50 cal ML2s, I virtually always used duplex loads for their overall superior performance. The only exception was when using straight VV110. VV110 is an absolutely outstanding powder for shooting saboted in the 45 and 50 cals.

[ET]

I agree with SW that H4227 was a terrible powder for poor fitting 209 and long flame channel in the BP. Correct the primer fit (head spacing) and shorten the flame channel along with a recessed BP creating a smaller ignition chamber and H4427 is now a new ball game. I’ve had excellent results with H4227 and would not hesitate using more. Alas the H4227 is discontinued.
So eventually I will have to go with IMR4227 and see how it performs.

[overtheir]

Nov 14, 2022 14:27:32 GMT -5 sw said:

Yesterday (11/13/2022) 300-400 yards behind my house.

Nice and behind your house  dame i got to mone to your neighbourh hood

[billyboy]

Nov 15, 2022 13:12:00 GMT -5 dannoboone said:

Does anyone now produce a barrel for the 700 ML anymore?
If so, it would be very advantageous to machine for the newer breech plugs.

My SML's were converted prior to any known LRMP systems, so they are the 209
versions. The ONLY time I had a FTF was with the 10MLII prior to conversion. It
was a load of 4227 and a 250gr bullet. But since then, after conversion of the
Savage and a 700ML, I have had no misfires (and never again used 4227).

I should add that I use mainly use duplex loads, yet there has never been a
failure with the single powder loads in either rifle.

"I just sent my 700ml barreled action off to McGowan. They just ask that you send them the bolt and the breech plug you want to use. You are looking at a 10+ week turn around or at least that is what I was told."

From a Guy on Modern Muzzleloader in the Smokeless Section