SM Loads Woodman Patriot 45cal

[frankk]

I’m a new guy here. I work up a lot of loads for my centerfires, but new to muzzleloaders.
I just ordered a Woodman Patriot 45cal with 1-20 26” barrel. Manufacturer tells me it’s rated for smokeless and I want to go in that direction.
I have a lot of IMR4198 and about a pound of Accurate 5744.
I anticipate running 40cal bullets in sabots in 180, 200 & 250grain sizes. I also have some .355” 137grain copper Hammer bullets with thick sabots to fit those. Am debating whether I should knurl and use wool wad under sabot.
I’m thinking of working up to 62grains IMR4198 for 250grain as advised elsewhere but not sure of starting load or maximum muzzle velocity, and not sure how much to scale down for the lighter bullets. And also wondering if a duplex booster with the 5744 might be beneficial.
Thank you in advance for good advice.
Frank

[frankk]

One reason I am asking about loads is that I cannot see anything in the “Loads Data Base” sticky. They appear to be google share documents but I don’t have permission to see them.

[jims]

I think you will have the best success with sabots if you stay with .40 bullets and perhaps Harvester light blue sabots. The thicker sabot/smaller caliber bullets (.357/9mm) etc. never seemed to pan out too well for most. I usually do not use a wad with sabots but some do with either wool or veggie type. Just have to experiment. The two powders you have should work. I thought under the load info on this site they would give you many loads.

[smokepolehall]

I found that using veggie or wool wads helps the sabot when temps climb above 75 degrees. I actually use them anytime temps get above 70. Helps stop the sabot drilling as your powder charge increases

[frankk]

Okay.. I’m concerned because I cannot see the Smokeless Loads Data Base in this board. But I do see some of the pressure traces and I am trying to pay attention to other posts - there’s a lot of information here to digest.

Anyway.. My hope is to find accurate loads but I don’t need them to be overly fast. I propose to test the following loads for my 180-250grain saboted bullets:
1. Start 55grain IMR4198 and proceed up to 62grain IMR4198, with a velocity safety limit stopping point of 2600fps.
2. Start duplex 8/40grains A5744/IMR4198 and proceed up to duplex 10/50grains A5744/IMR4198, with a safety limit stopping point of 2600fps as above.

Would these be safe?

[frankk]

P.S. - I will stick to .40 cal bullets for now. I have a pack of the light blue 45/40 Harvester Sabots, and I believe I have a few of the tan 45/40 MMP that came with my 200 Hornady SST bullets. And I think I’ll buy some .45 wool wads to go under the sabots. Thank you for the replies!

P.P.S. - I also have some of those 285grain .45 ELR Powerbelts but I’m advised they are junk for terminal performance. So I’ll treat them accordingly.

[smokepolehall]

I have a .45 NEF break action so my loads don't go very high. I don't like my shoulder being pounded too hard. Using 195 Barnes, 200XTP, SST n 200 SW. I use 17-22 gr of Blue dot. 30 - 38 vv110, 30 - 40 4759, 50-62 RL7, 50 -58 H4198 with HLB

[frankk]

Jan 10, 2022 22:43:13 GMT -5 smokepolehall said:

Using 195 Barnes, 200XTP, SST n 200 SW. I use 17-22 gr of Blue dot. 30 - 38 vv110, 30 - 40 4759, 50-62 RL7, 50 -58 H4198 with HLB

Thank you very much! Do you happen to have velocity for those loads?
I always use my chrony to make sure nothing gets too hot.

[sw]

Frank,
What is you range goal, ie, maximum range?

[ET]

Frank
Have a gander here.
docs.google.com/file/d/0BzomGpjNi_EBTzZPSl9zTG44Wk0/edit?resourcekey=0-y0kIjY0mJlW3aIghHx6uqA

[frankk]

Thank you, ET. That is exactly what I hoped for!!

[frankk]

SW,
I think my realistic ethical hunting range will be less than 150yards. But that might change when I actually receive and get proficient with this new weapon.
But I do have access to a 1000-yard shooting range with nice targets and gongs at 100-yard intervals. I’d like to know how far it can go.

Thanks,
Frank

[ET]

Jan 11, 2022 17:28:43 GMT -5 frankk said:

Thank you, ET. That is exactly what I hoped for!!

My pleasure to help.

[GMB54-120]

62gr 4198 for a 250gr 40 will be a bit hot for sabot loads. You want to be more like 55-58gr to start. The sabots take a good beating once the 40cal bullet gets much over 225grs.

58gr of 4198 and a 40cal 240-250gr Fury in a sabot should get you 2400fps-2500fps

AND i just gave you perms to see that load PDF. I go through them each morning. Google changed how doc sharing works so i got to approve each person that want to view them. Sometimes i miss somebody.

[frankk]

Thank you, GMB!!!
After looking at all the load data I definitely agree that I need to start with 55grains IMR4198 and maybe work up a little bit from there. I think 2400fps will be plenty speed for that size bullet - I’m mostly interested in accuracy rather than speed
Frank

[sideshow]

You do realize that Mark Woodman himself is just a phone call away dont you ?? Hes tested those guns six ways from sundown and knows what works best in his product . Its always good to ask but id surly be asking him most of all !!!

[frankk]

Hi Sideshow,
I have indeed spoken to Mark Woodman and he seems really great to work with. He suggested RE7 and H4198 loads, and he told me that my IMR4198 will work too if it doesn’t get too cold. He’s of course very helpful and that’s one reason why I decided to purchase one of his premium weapons.
But I also see a lot of smart and experienced people here. Thank you all for great responses!
Frank

[GMB54-120]

Reloder7 is good too and a tad more sabot friendly. Slightly easier to ignite but also a bit dirty.

[frankk]

Thank you GMB,
I also found some Reloader 7 the other day.
Frank

[buckstuds]

I am looking at the woodsman patriot, a different breach plug and stay under 45,000 psi for 900 bucks. Also very lite at 5.5 lbs.

[frankk]

I agree the Woodman Patriot looks like a lot of fun. I ordered mine with the 26” 1-20 Brux barrel and the adjustable bushing breech plug. It’s got a long lead time but I’ll certainly share experience when I get it.

[1gifford]

The woodsman looks like a great little mz. I wish Mark would have designed it with a rear sealing breech plug....and a threaded muzzle option for those that want to shoot sabotless. Probably will need a brake.

My guess is that your going to be happiest in the 56-60 grain of H4198 zone.

Let us know when you get it and how she shoots!!!

[GMB54-120]

The G2 series appear to be rear sealing

[1gifford]

Thanks for pointing that out GMB. I didn't see all the various breech plugs until I went thru all the store pages on the website.
Looks like there are 2 different G2 plugs.......also the little MZ looks to turn into a expensive little shooter once you get all the goodies. (just like everything else these days!)

[Deleted]

So why does all the good stuff have to be paid for extra after one buys the gun.Why not make the good stuff standard on the mzl?Made in usa,right?The all great american $.I will not buy a gun for $900.00 and have to spend more money for it to be a good mzl.

[frankk]

I think it’s a matter of deciding what you want to do with it. I would have ordered the base rifle if my only goal was to get a nice rifle to hunt with BH209 powder. But I decided to upscale just because that’s what I like to do.

[sw]

A lot of people want to select their own “good stuff” . I really think coming bare bones is a great way to sell a rifle, crossbow, etc..

[sideshow]

Guys a call to Woodman Arms wouldve cleared up alot of the false assumptions . That truly isnt fair to how he does bussiness and isnt based in fact . Not cool , the Patriot isnt junk . This is a Quality Lightweight Hunting Rifle with options if you so choose , In fact with features Unavailable Anyplace Else !!!