The so called Flyer.

[grouse]

I saw on another thread about Flyers from a Muzzleloader. I didn’t want to get that thread off track so I started a new one. Flyers are a statement often used in Muzzleloading . I would like to address what I have found out about the so called flyer.
What causes a flyer?
1- Poor/inconsistent bullet sabot fit to the bore.
2- Heat
3- Shooter error.

Let me start with no#1- If your loading pressure or sabot diameter is not consistent it will cause a flyer. Example: If you shoot two shot’s and those bullets are fairly tight loading and all of a sudden the third bullet and sabot fall down the barrel. That will create a flyer. I don’t hunt with that load or do I shoot that at a target. I basically shoot that bullet out and reload. I sure don’t want to have a flyer while hunting or developing a good load. I have really found this more so with MMP sabots then Harvester sabots. Harvester sabots imo have better plastic or polymer to with stand the extra heat at the range and in warmer tempatures.

No#2- Heat. With Muzzleloaders the heat really varies with the loads you are shooting. 100grns of 777/BH209 doesn’t heat your barrel up as fast or take as long to cool off as shooting 120grns. But if you shoot to much of either load with out proper cooling you will get flyers. The sabots obviously get soft in the barrel. Which leads to inconsistent bullet to sabot to bore fit. Usually two bullets real close and the third an inch or two or three away.

No#3- Shooter error. I think a lot of us like to blame the sabot or the powder with the so called flyer when it’s really us who make the mistake. I’m far from a shooter. I’m way more a hunter then a shooter. Getting hooked up with Lehigh mainly has created me to shoot a lot more then normal. I know when I have a flyer before I ever see the target. I know when I pulled the shot or took a shot that just wasn’t comfortable when I took it. You can’t take that shot back in a hunting situation. That I believe is what a lot of people call a flyer. Here it has nothing to do with the bullets, sabot,Gun or anything.

The point I’m getting at is I don’t get flyers unless I do something wrong. Shoot to fast and barrel heats up. Flinch or pull the shot. Poor sabot or bullet and don’t shoot it out or unload before shooting it at game or target. This is what I have found over the years and I hope it might help a few of you out in your situation.

[Jon]

Grouse, Very well put

[davewolf]

I agree 100 percent, always know when I have jerked the trigger, and even when I lost concentration on a particular shot.
What's your take on the infamous "fouling shot."
Have a great day!
Dave

[grouse]

Jun 13, 2009 10:25:53 GMT -5 davewolf said:

What's your take on the infamous "fouling shot."
Have a great day!
Dave

I shoot two fouling shot's, not one.

[davewolf]

I never could fully understand the need for a 'fouling shot.' I can't always find a place to shoot one when I go hunting and I travel to where I hunt....usually arrive late and get up long before dawn and my buddies wouldn't be happy with me shooting a 'fouling shot' on the first day of deer season.
The four deer I have killed with my CVA .45 cal were all taken without a fouling shot.
I know you folks have a lot of experience with ML's and someone has to find a better way.

Sorry for the thread drift.
Have a great day!
Dave

[grouse]

Shoot your fouling shot or two the week before the season at the range. Then don't clean it at all. This is based on you shooting BH209.

The reason for this is to get all the oils out of your barrel and free your flame channel of any oil as well.

[davewolf]

To date I haven't used any oils in my barrel. I have cleaned it with soap and water only and dried it thoroughly, but it hasn't been stored for any period of time. I keep checking it and the barrel remains sparkling clean.
I know this seems like an odd question, but I was wondering if you could save a couple of dirty patches and run them up and down the barrel and pop off a couple of primers to get rid of any oil build up?

The range is almost impossible to get on,, right before deer season.
Have a great day!
Dave

[grouse]

Jun 14, 2009 10:25:18 GMT -5 davewolf said:

I know this seems like an odd question, but I was wondering if you could save a couple of dirty patches and run them up and down the barrel and pop off a couple of primers to get rid of any oil build up?

Dave

That's just fine. Snap off two primers and swab the barrel with alchohol.

[davewolf]

Really? That sounds like a much better solution for me!
Thanks,
Have a great day!
Dave

[davewolf]

wanted to add, I had a horrible day at the range, with my tweaked Triumph. 82 degrees, but not too humid. Shot the first shot at 25 yards, and it was two inches low and to the right about an inch. Moved immediately to 100-yards and wanted to try my scope on 6X. where I usually hunt with it at, rather than 9X where I set it for target shooting.
Wow, exactly where I wanted it, two inches high and a one inch left...now just a few more clicks and I should be on. But it was as if I was shooting a scatter gun!
I tried to let the barrel cool and kept the powder and the sabots in the shade, even the rifle as I walked back and forth to the target. Okay bear down, concentrate!
The next two where two inches high and dead center...after a scope adjustment. The last one was two inches, below and to the right--a combination measurement.
Odd after reading about flyers, the first two were where I wanted them, the first out a clean barrel, the second out of a barrel with one shot fired out of it. The best group came from a warm barrel on shots 10-11 with no cleaning or swabbing between shots!
What the heck?
Have a great day!
Dave