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Post by edge on Mar 25, 2015 7:19:12 GMT -5
SNIP. I just don't care for the scare tactics. Ha Ha Ha! You are the one talking about gas cutting and such. I have not seen a bad system, some are machined better than others but to say the Savage plug gas cuts no matter what with heavy loads is just nuts! I doubt many have shot hotter loads than I have in the early days before we knew much about the pressures we were generating! Why we did not have more bulged barrels is amazing when you think about the Lil'Gun loads, especially with the "exploding hardware store" and all You new guys did not go through our growing pains in the very early 2000's! edge.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 7:25:48 GMT -5
Gas cutting is real, exploding dmb1's aren't. I can do this forever or we can call it off now. Do you use a savage plug? Seems like you modified your own way of doing it to get away from the gas cutting.
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Post by edge on Mar 25, 2015 7:39:39 GMT -5
Gas cutting is real, exploding dmb1's aren't. I can do this forever or we can call it off now. Do you use a savage plug? Seems like you modified your own way of doing it to get away from the gas cutting. I have made many modifications, but gas cutting has never been an issue for me! I made the recessed plug to reduce the distance from the VL to the primer. I came up with the bushing to eliminate the wear of the VL. I made a shorter plug for non-Savage barrel nut barrels. FYI, the Savage plug is as long as it is to get past the Barrel Nut threads so that you do not have "notch" barrel weakness! Without a barrel nut my BP just has to get past the recoil lug. OH, and EVERYONE has the Savage snout that goes into the bore to reduce the pressure on the threads. BP "thrust" is based on the area facing the load. The Savage BP has about 0.165 in^2 in area so a 50,000 load exerts about 8,250 pounds of pressure against the Savage threads. If you eliminate that snout the Savage now has about 0.300 ^2 and the threads would see 15,000 or 55% more! edge. ADDED PS those area and pressure numbers are based on a .45 barrel and not the 50 cal.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 7:48:17 GMT -5
Very good info there, I copied your short plugs for a shouldered build but haven't gotten to use them yet.
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Post by rossman40 on Mar 25, 2015 16:19:45 GMT -5
It looks like I ruffuled a few feathers. The only reason was I questioned the statement of Cole's, Which plug do you have in it? That will be your limiting factor more than the contour, was, I believe, not quite right. So now you could have people believing that breechplug choice is more important then contour. After all they read it on the internet...
I understand what Cole was trying to convey but for someone who might bring the thread up on a search it might lead them wrong. I know not all of us are English lit majors but when you write something down or make a statement it needs to be clear and concise. You guys may not realize it but if you type any serious ballistic or firearms related question into a search engine, a lot of times you will get a hit bringing you to this board. Not trying to stifle creativity but more so to keep the "rep" credible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 16:56:52 GMT -5
I'll admit I didn't get back around to answering why I asked which plug before it got fiesty! Sorry for any confusion I caused.
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Post by rambler on Mar 25, 2015 17:08:36 GMT -5
It looks like I ruffuled a few feathers. The only reason was I questioned the statement of Cole's, Which plug do you have in it? That will be your limiting factor more than the contour, was, I believe, not quite right. So now you could have people believing that breechplug choice is more important then contour. After all they read it on the internet...
I understand what Cole was trying to convey but for someone who might bring the thread up on a search it might lead them wrong. I know not all of us are English lit majors but when you write something down or make a statement it needs to be clear and concise. You guys may not realize it but if you type any serious ballistic or firearms related question into a search engine, a lot of times you will get a hit bringing you to this board. Not trying to stifle creativity but more so to keep the "rep" credible. I don't believe anything I read without thorough corroborating research, weather it be on the internet or an outhouse wall
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 17:37:33 GMT -5
Okay, I have a rem 700 ml with .45 cal mcgowen dmb 1, 25 in. Barrel , 1-22 twist,savage breechplug. I understand the difference between contours mcgowen offers. My question is what is the max safe pressure the dmb1 contour can comfortably take? Iv read over the load and pressure link quite a bit and am wondering if the dmb-1 could stand a 40,000 psi load comfortably ... I just don't want to assume anything and want to be safe.I'm starting with sabots and single load (h4198) but plan to eventually move into sabotless and using a duplex load. I have the exact same set up as you, barrel and plug wise, the load I shoot is around 44k (according to TG'S trace), it shoots great and I have never had an issue or a sign of too much pressure, that being said, that is near my upper limit that I am willing to go with this set up. Would it handle more? Likely..Will I push it more? No sense, a 275 parker at 2700 shooting sub moa is all I ever need from this gun. The loads I shoot appear safe in my gun and may not in others, but seeing how you have the same set up, I would assume you should be ok. Just start low and work your way up. Edit: I use a. 030 Savage bushing plug.
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Post by eml9 on Mar 26, 2015 8:01:36 GMT -5
Lots of good information guys. didn't mean to start a firework show but it brought out a lot of good points.hopefully its helped others as well .
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Post by ET on Mar 26, 2015 8:50:15 GMT -5
Lots of good information guys. didn't mean to start a firework show but it brought out a lot of good points.hopefully its helped others as well . Eml9 Your thread is not responsible for initiating or fueling any fireworks that have appeared. Expressing a possible concern and having it reviewed by others with experience in most cases benefits those in the same situation. Ed
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Post by epanzella on Mar 30, 2015 10:51:22 GMT -5
Please indulge me, guys. I'm not familiar with the with the nomenclature you refer to as to barrel contours. My McGowan/Savage barrel (nutted) stays full diameter for 4 inches (1.050) then does a quick taper spanning less than an inch to .900 where it remains right to the muzzle. For the purposes of this thread this would not be considered a "weak" contour, would it? Obviously, my concern is that point 5 inches from the chamber where the barrel rapidly shrinks to .900. Ed P
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Post by edge on Mar 30, 2015 11:48:36 GMT -5
Please indulge me, guys. I'm not familiar with the with the nomenclature you refer to as to barrel contours. My McGowan/Savage barrel (nutted) stays full diameter for 4 inches (1.050) then does a quick taper spanning less than an inch to .900 where it remains right to the muzzle. For the purposes of this thread this would not be considered a "weak" contour, would it? Obviously, my concern is that point 5 inches from the chamber where the barrel rapidly shrinks to .900. Ed P EDITED, gave incorrect info DUH!Do you have a standard Savage BP? If I assume yes, then you used the 78 grain load of IMR4198 the base of your bullet will be about 4 3/16 inches from the end of your barrel ( right about at the start of the transition ). Quickload shows the pressure a bit higher than TGinPA's Pressure Trace but not too far off in 23I and the velocity is close so let's go with that. According to QL the max pressure is achieved when the bullet has moved about 1.20 ( 5 3/8 inches from the breech end of your barrel ) inches and is @ 30,000 psi after 5 ( 9 3/16 in) inches of bullet travel and your barrel is about 0.220 thick. PEAK pressure seems to be in the 0.900 barrel diameter.edge. Sorry for the incorrect data as I hit msec. instead of inches by mistake!
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Post by epanzella on Mar 30, 2015 12:37:27 GMT -5
Edge, I don't have nearly the expertise you have in figuring these numbers out but after reading these threads for the last year I figured the peak pressure would be into the .900 inch section of the barrel. What I don't know is the safe pressure level of a .900 in barrel. (McGowen 4140). My first trip out using blue harvestors and a 200gr .40 cal SST (in .458 bore) yielded about 2400fps with 57.0gr RL7. While this is all the power I need I didn't hit the MOA sweet spot yet so I will be inching up until I find it. It seems other guys with my setup using RL7 found accuracy between 62 and 67 grains of RL7. I just wanted opinion(s) as to my barrel's suitability for loads in that range. Thanks Ed P
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Post by edge on Mar 30, 2015 12:51:49 GMT -5
I don't think I would worry with those loads...and I know Earnhardt wouldn't Ha Ha Ha edge.
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