|
Post by eml9 on Mar 23, 2015 15:53:29 GMT -5
Okay, I have a rem 700 ml with .45 cal mcgowen dmb 1, 25 in. Barrel , 1-22 twist,savage breechplug. I understand the difference between contours mcgowen offers. My question is what is the max safe pressure the dmb1 contour can comfortably take? Iv read over the load and pressure link quite a bit and am wondering if the dmb-1 could stand a 40,000 psi load comfortably ... I just don't want to assume anything and want to be safe.I'm starting with sabots and single load (h4198) but plan to eventually move into sabotless and using a duplex load.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:55:29 GMT -5
Most definitely you will be fine with that contour. Which plug do you have in it? That will be your limiting factor more than the contour.
Edit: (should have read) the dmb1 is a more than safe contour for loads of 40,000psi. It should be heavy enough to withstand the force of an accidental double load even. So the only question left is what plug will you be using? If I were building a new rig I would seriously consider the arrowhead plug for sabot less shooting. The rear seal allows for more ease of mind about the seal IMO
|
|
|
Post by eml9 on Mar 23, 2015 16:15:11 GMT -5
Savage plug . edited it right after I read my post.your too quick for me
|
|
|
Post by rossman40 on Mar 23, 2015 23:11:53 GMT -5
It's not so much how high the peak pressure is but when the peak pressure happens. If peak pressure occurs in the weaker area of the barrel then you have a problem. It doesn't have to be a catastrophic failure where you exceed tensile strength, a barrel rupture. Or a where you pass yield strength, a bulged barrel. The big threat IMO is when your shooting your super load and you think everything is cool but your just below yield strength. What can happen then is a catastrophic failure due to fatigue. Much like bending a wire till it breaks. The barrel bulges some every shot, that's how strain gages work, your just not exceeding yield strength or what is also refereed to as elastic limit. Thinner the barrel the more it's going to bulge (you also have to factor in any fluting). Breechplug a factor more then contour? ?? It's been pretty much proven that the barrel will burst before the factory Savage breechplug fails. Chance of a ignition flub is more of a factor IMO. Slow ignition could result in the bullet being farther down the barrel before peak pressure occurs.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 6:50:54 GMT -5
Ken can you show me a barrel contour with a yield strength of 40k psi? It has been proven that the savage plug will gas cut at anything near 50k psi, the dmb1 contour will not explode at this same pressure.
|
|
|
Post by edge on Mar 24, 2015 7:56:53 GMT -5
Aloha Airlines! While aluminum is much more likely to crack and fail from continued expansion and contraction most metals can suffer from fatigue. Sharp edges (Threads on ID and OD ), sight holes drilled into the barrel all contribute to a weakening of the barrel. edge.
|
|
|
Post by fishhawk on Mar 24, 2015 8:56:40 GMT -5
The DMB#1 & #2 were designed to withstand pressures of 50K and way more. Yes, the breechplug might have flame cutting with lots of high pressure shots. At 40K it will be just fine.
|
|
|
Post by normrep on Mar 24, 2015 10:24:02 GMT -5
Breechplug a factor more then contour? ?? It's been pretty much proven that the barrel will burst before the factory Savage breechplug fails. Chance of a ignition flub is more of a factor IMO. Slow ignition could result in the bullet being farther down the barrel before peak pressure occurs.This makes me wonder if shooting lighter charges could be just as dangerous as shooting super charges in the long run. If slow ignition - as a result of shooting lower charges - causes the bullet to move further down the barrel before peak pressure occurs, it seems as though this could cause barrel problems over time as well. Am I thinking the right way about this? If that were the case, how does one then determine the best powder/pressure range for any given barrel, gun, and load: Not too much - not too little - but just right?
|
|
|
Post by rossman40 on Mar 24, 2015 10:41:05 GMT -5
Cole, yes flame cutting can be a factor when shooting 50ksi+ loads with the Savage breechplug. But that is not what you said, "Which plug do you have in it? That will be your limiting factor more than the contour". I just gotta throw the flag on that. For someone who has say a fluted Sendaro contoured barrel, to try shooting the monster loads, to get a warm&fuzzy (safe feeling) just because he has a rear sealing plug is not right. That's the point I'm trying to make. If you want to push the envelope then get a contour (and even a breechplug) that can handle it with a safety factor or buffer. If you want to go with a lighter contour to cut down carry weight then understand the possible limitations/safety factors. At least that is what I tell my customers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 10:51:19 GMT -5
Ken you missed the most definitely safe with that contour, the contour wasn't a variable. It's dmb-1 if he wants sabotless then he should know he should stay well under 50k or his plug and barrel will gas cut and then what do you have? A leaky system forever. If he had a rear seal plug I would tell him to stay with a load that under a double loaded situation he won't surpass burst strength.
|
|
|
Post by eml9 on Mar 24, 2015 11:04:01 GMT -5
Thanks guys i appreciate all the input . I don't plan on shooting a super fast load, just want to be sure I'm not pressing the limit . I am mostly a hunter and concerned more about consistant ignition in the cold.I will be using h4198 and planned duplexing with 4759 but it seems to have been discontinued .. Not a whole lot of other boosters in the pressure traces used with h4198 . is there a reason for this ? I will be shooting 195 Barnes, harvester light blue sabot for now until I get some Parker bullets.any suggestions on a good duplex loads for sabotted shooting ?
|
|
|
Post by rossman40 on Mar 24, 2015 11:09:21 GMT -5
Smaller charges are less of a problem then a large charge of slower powder. You have to remember the chamber size increases as the bullet goes down the bore. A smaller charge may not have the umph to bring the pressure back up to get a good burn so you would get more of a fizzle.
|
|
|
Post by edge on Mar 24, 2015 11:09:57 GMT -5
SNIP. I would tell him to stay with a load that under a double loaded situation he won't surpass burst strength. The Barrel dimensions determine burst strength not the BP. The BP threads determine pullout strength, I doubt anyone has ever shot out any of these BP's! edge.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 11:14:29 GMT -5
I give up! Haha this is like when you were describing threads and no one understood you. All I'm saying is if you are using a savage plug in the dmb the plugs ability to seal is your weak link. If you use hankins or Luke's plug the barrel is your weak link again. There will be no more posts about this from me!
|
|
|
Post by edge on Mar 24, 2015 11:21:14 GMT -5
The BARREL MATERIAL dimensions OVER THE PEAK PRESSURE SPIKE is the weak link! The barrel contour is what this thread is about.
edge.
|
|
|
Post by eml9 on Mar 24, 2015 11:49:41 GMT -5
Okay ,so what iv got out of this dispute is .. powder reaching peak pressure out of the "beef" of the barrel is where problems could begin. A load that is border line too hot causing Expanding and contracting over time could lead to bulged or ruptured barrel.extreme hot loads will cause gas issues with the savage plug. Note: I do have a fluted barrel so that as well I will take into consideration. Correct me if I comprehended this wrong. Thanks again guys for educating me
Eric
|
|
|
Post by edge on Mar 24, 2015 11:54:34 GMT -5
You have it correctly.
Since your barrel is fluted then your barrel OD can be thought of as the root of the flutes since most likely a failure would start there.
edge.
|
|
|
Post by normrep on Mar 24, 2015 12:07:15 GMT -5
Smaller charges are less of a problem then a large charge of slower powder. You have to remember the chamber size increases as the bullet goes down the bore. A smaller charge may not have the umph to bring the pressure back up to get a good burn so you would get more of a fizzle. Thanks for the explanation - makes perfect sense. I appreciate the good information and experience found on this site!
|
|
|
Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 24, 2015 12:10:29 GMT -5
I like FAT barrels and rear sealing plugs ! Drop
|
|
|
Post by ratsnakeboogy on Mar 24, 2015 13:23:24 GMT -5
I like FAT barrels and rear sealing plugs ! Drop And he cannot lie!
|
|
|
Post by rambler on Mar 24, 2015 14:05:02 GMT -5
I like FAT barrels and rear sealing plugs ! Drop Copy that big guy!!
|
|
|
Post by ET on Mar 24, 2015 18:43:27 GMT -5
Most definitely you will be fine with that contour. Which plug do you have in it? That will be your limiting factor more than the contour. Breech Plug is not a factor for barrel strength period. Rossman40 and Edge are right about location in bore where peak pressure is obtained. Material thickness and strength is the deciding factor for amount of pressure needed at given points to do any damage. Ed
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 18:53:08 GMT -5
Once again not talking about contour, he already told us what he had, it's plenty safe. If he wants a total quality system maybe he can talk to me. If all we care about is safety I guess you've got it covered.
|
|
|
Post by kash913 on Mar 24, 2015 18:59:08 GMT -5
Lol
|
|
|
Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 24, 2015 19:16:04 GMT -5
You Mad Bro ?
|
|
|
Post by ET on Mar 24, 2015 19:20:41 GMT -5
Once again not talking about contour, he already told us what he had, it's plenty safe. If he wants a total quality system maybe he can talk to me. If all we care about is safety I guess you've got it covered. The original poster asked about a safety concern and not about a quality system. You seem to be pushing another agenda about quality systems for whatever purpose. Ed
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 20:03:08 GMT -5
Not pushing any agenda and not mad bro.
|
|
|
Post by ratsnakeboogy on Mar 24, 2015 20:18:37 GMT -5
Goos fraba.
"I feel pretty"
Dang, rough around here as of late.
|
|
|
Post by ET on Mar 24, 2015 20:26:50 GMT -5
Not pushing any agenda and not mad bro. Not mad either but have to wonder what motivated you to made such a statement to begin with? You are good at what you do and help bring forth new things to the muzzle–loading circle that many appreciate. That part of you I hope to continue seeing. As far as safety or possible safety concern or what appears to be misleading info even if unintentional I’m going to be on the front line questioning or stating, that’s my character. Ed
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 20:32:26 GMT -5
The whole thing is that he asked if a contour specifically designed for what we are doing is safe for a saboted load. Easily answered, yes. If he wants to go sabot less in the future he should seriously consider Luke's plug. Every savage plug gun I have had or seen after it's used is gas cut. No exceptions, all of them. This really bothers me so I think he should consider plug choice as well. I didn't think the forum was so strict that I couldn't sidebar a conversation about plugs but doesn't matter now. Winter is almost over, let's all go out and shoot and not fret the extra threads and all the safety that is built in to all these rifles. I just don't care for the scare tactics.
|
|