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Post by giannid on Jan 22, 2015 20:59:22 GMT -5
I've got Richard doing a conversion for me on a Katahdin 45/70 encore barrel> I'm sure the question has been beaten to death but I'm wondering what I should in my application. I'm going to be shooting 250 grain bullets sized with a smooth die and have the thick veggie wads. Is it a good ideal to boost for this gun or not? I'll be using H4198 and have plenty of vv100 or 4759 I can use as a booster. I am in Ohio where the temperatures get pretty cold. I want to develop one load and stick with it. Can I find my powder charge first that my gun likes with the H4198 and add the booster later or should I do all my load developing with the booster? The booster thing is strange to me as I'm a reloader and it's strange that you can mix two powders and be consistent. I under stand it's to ignite the more reliably but would rather not use it if I can get away with it. I also don't want that buck of a lifetime to walk in front of me and my gun not fire. Can I get by by loading tighter and not use the booster?
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Post by jims on Jan 22, 2015 21:47:19 GMT -5
I do not have such a barrel to compare with but I do live in Ohio and like the small amount of booster. Never a problem with fire. Great that you have those two powders that can be used as a booster. I use 4759 only because I have it in quantity and could never get a reliable source of 110. The 110 was cleaner and less bulky than 4759 but again I have the latter and it worked well.
Others can give you loads for that barrel as again I do not have one but I feel good with the booster and generally in winter use one of the hotter primers like the Fed 209A or CCI mags, better seal with the Winchesters but less flame.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 22:23:47 GMT -5
Myers129 built me a short barreled .40 cal, and set me up with a bunch of safe loads to develop off of, and they worked flawlessly and the gun was easy to get to shoot very good off his recommended loads. Maybe give him a pm and see if he can help you out as well, if not maybe Richard has some preferred loads you can try out.
My data won't help you much seeing how it's a .40 cal, but I'm sure Cole or Richard can get ya going safely.
Best of luck with your project.
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Post by Richard on Jan 22, 2015 23:23:03 GMT -5
This 250 gr. bullet.......is it a Parker or one of the generic variety? I ask that because Parkers are softer and will fatten up (obturate) more easily. Don't get worried about duplexing. I have been reloading all my life and first started hearing about it when they came out with the .45 Casull Mag. and the only loads were "triplex!" and I said WOW!!!!
#1 duplex load are safe if used in the proper proportion just like single powder loads when used properly! #2 getting them mixed up is never a problem as the only thing will happen is they become LESS potent. You put the booster charge down the bore first and tap you gun to settle it on the bottom over the vent. Then add the main charge. Your wad and bullet will keep it in place. Your primer will easily ignite the booster which in turn ignites the main charge. With the booster producing a quick pressure rise, it will assist that bullet "obturating" and get it to grab the rifling.
Every time I have mixed a duplex (on purpose) my load looses roughly 100 fps. Mixing defeats the purpose of a duplex the same as putting them in reversed (with the main charge first and then the booster).
So, with bullets like the Hornady XTP/SST I would want to go to a booster like Red Dot or Clays to get the pressure up quick. Not a lot..................say 5 gr. and then put 50 gr. of H or IMR 4198 on top of it. On the other hand, if you are using Mr. Parker's bullet then you could probably get away with using N-110 or 4759 as your booster in the amount of say.................10 gr. and then 45 to 50 gr. of the 4198. Either of these loads are mild and should be safe in your rifle.
I have also shot triplex loads in the Rem./PN with decent results and no safety issues; 110/120/130 and others. I am not advocating this just pointing out that when used sensibly, based on experience with all the powders involved, it can be very safe.
Richard
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Post by 153 on Jan 23, 2015 11:39:22 GMT -5
I've got Richard doing a conversion for me on a Katahdin 45/70 encore barrel> I'm sure the question has been beaten to death but I'm wondering what I should in my application. I'm going to be shooting 250 grain bullets sized with a smooth die and have the thick veggie wads. Is it a good ideal to boost for this gun or not? I'll be using H4198 and have plenty of vv100 or 4759 I can use as a booster. I am in Ohio where the temperatures get pretty cold. I want to develop one load and stick with it. Can I find my powder charge first that my gun likes with the H4198 and add the booster later or should I do all my load developing with the booster? The booster thing is strange to me as I'm a reloader and it's strange that you can mix two powders and be consistent. I under stand it's to ignite the more reliably but would rather not use it if I can get away with it. I also don't want that buck of a lifetime to walk in front of me and my gun not fire. Can I get by by loading tighter and not use the booster? If I lived in Ohio where bucks can be huge and temp can be cold I would duplex. I have never had a misfire with H4198, but I live/hunt in NC/VA. Our temps may go to the 20's in ML season but I still duplex. Duplex is safe as a single IMO. Richard himself has shot 1000's of duplex loads as well as others on this board. Buck of a lifetime walks out on a cold snowy morning I want a loud BANG, not a just a 209 cap going poof. |
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Post by cowhunter on Jan 23, 2015 12:30:16 GMT -5
To me this is a tough and close question. Thanks to Richards testing, I just switched to duplexes in a 209 ignition system Rempac. You are right to worry about load pressure with a single powder slower than 4198, and with 4198. If getting tight loading pressure is hard without having to hammer some bullets down, you can try knurling. I used to knurl the top half of the Bullet to ensure loading pressure. I index the bullets so it is nice to get the bullet started down before the knurling makes it tight.
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Post by 1coyotemaster on Jan 23, 2015 14:17:36 GMT -5
Not as much experience as others but when I was testing loads in cold last winter I had several FF with a 250 grain bullet and straight H4198 in 10F weather. I duplexed this year and shot 2 deer with 10/50 5744/4198 (20F) with good results and accuracy. I too want the gun to go bang every time. It isn't such a hassle as it sounds with some of Luke's plastic containers.
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Post by Alabama on Jan 23, 2015 15:25:40 GMT -5
Here's the way I see it. I shot 70 gr I-4198 and a duplex of 10/60 gr. 4759/4198. I did not notice a change in POI as both loads should be close in FPS. Just for my peace of mind I have used the duplex load for hunting. I expect the board is probably split 50/50 ow whether to duplex or not. I would hate for gun to go pop instead of boom.
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Post by Dave W on Jan 23, 2015 15:51:55 GMT -5
Ohio hunter here too. If opposed to duplex, a recessed plug will help with ignition. Have shot pounds of H4198 through a SMI conversion with only one misfire and that was with a undersized Barnes TEZ at the range. Always went bang with a properly sized bullet. A recessed area down to where the threads begin would cut the flame path in half approximately, would make the flame path even shorter than my SMI plug. This option will not get rid of temp sensitivity with that powder though.
Another option, a OEM length plug with the larger PFC and .040 bushing. Couple guys here have reported good results with lower ES's and no cold weather ignition issues with single powder loads using that combo.
I am as pro duplex as anyone on here, but I am entertaining going this route in my McRem. Like to see more reports with cold weather data comparing velocities throughout a broad temp range before I jump though.
Until then, I will stick to duplexing.
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Post by rangeball on Jan 23, 2015 16:02:08 GMT -5
I am as pro duplex as anyone on here, but I am entertaining going this route in my McRem. Like to see more reports with cold weather data comparing velocities throughout a broad temp range before I jump though. Yes, please. |
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Post by giannid on Jan 23, 2015 17:29:04 GMT -5
The bullets I'm trying first will be 250 grain, sst, fxp, and xtp. Also purchased 10 250 grain Parker BE just in case the Hornady's don't shoot well. I really prefer to shoot the Hornady's as they're cheaper and easier to find. I'll be sizing all my bullets on a smooth die. I'm just trying to get a good 200 yard muzzleloader, something my factory barreled Savage never could do. So it sounds like I should plan on using a booster for reliable ignition in my cold weather ohio muzzleloader hunts. Do you guys think I can develop a load first and then add the booster to sight the gun in or shoot right out of the go with a booster? I'm thinking of starting with 53 grains of H4198 and work my way up to 60 grains max, one grain at a time and see what shoots best. After I find my powder charge, I'll subtract 10 grains for a booster and use the together. Good way to do it?
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Post by Alabama on Jan 23, 2015 17:46:07 GMT -5
Sight in the least expensive way possible. Then fine tune it with your load of choice.
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lundy
8 Pointer
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Post by lundy on Jan 25, 2015 19:39:19 GMT -5
Another Ohio hunter here and my son also. We have hunted in plenty of cold weather including temps below zero. Two savage Pacnors, 195 gr Barnes, 62 gr N-120,209A or CCI Mag, never an issue with ignition and never a missed or lost deer. Previous two savage 50's,300 Gr Barnes, 60 gr N-120,209A or CCI Mag, never any ignition problems, never a lost or missed deer.
For me, with my guns, with my loads, for my deer hunting, I have never had the need to duplex. Maybe if I was shooting sabotless or wanting to push beyond 250 yds I would need to. I am not against it, just have no need to fix something that isn't broken
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 20:26:55 GMT -5
Had to chip in on this one.... Up until this season I would fall into to the camp that had never experienced misfires... I've hunted in sub zero quite a few times and never had a problem with it going bang... In my old .50 I shot straight H4198 with 300 gn bullets in sabots, later in my .45 I shot H4198 with 200gn bullets in sabots...Started shooting sabotless a couple years ago mostly 250_275 gn bullets going various duplex combos and never had a problem with that...Killed a buck at -5* last year with 10/60 4759/H4198 and a 250FTX with no ignition problems... This year I decided to go a different way using a .040 bushing and modified plug using 73gn H4198 and a 275BE... It was a very accurate load and fired every time in warmer temps... I killed an Antelope in September using that combo at 340yds... Not wanting to change things up before deer season I decided to stick with that load thinking it wouldn't be a problem in cold weather... The only difference is that I changed to a .030 bushing in a stock plug.. My .040 bushing split out so I went a different route... The third week of December during ML seaon I had been on the hunt for a big Mulie in the 180" range... After a week of getting almost close I finally snuck 300yds in a foot of snow at -8* to get within 400yds for the shot.... Short story Was .. I got a good solid rest, dialed up the elevation, pulled the trigger and it went click and the buck walked over the hill..That was a real bummer for me... The rest of the season in western Nebraska reached record colds down to -49* wind chill and was too cold for me to get out.
Next year I'll be hunting with a duplex combo again... Also.. fishawk sent me another .040 bushin and I'll be using that...The hotter and faster the booster for me...
Zen
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Post by cowhunter on Jan 26, 2015 12:38:55 GMT -5
Pan, that is the story we all fear. I would do just what you are doing with temperatures that cold.
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