Sub n110 for 4759 duplexing

[bowbender6]

I have a lot of N110. Can I sub for 4759 as it discontinued. I have a little less than a pound but if I am just starting to work up a load with this new barrel would I be better to find a powder that I can get? Any downside to N110? I am shooting with sabots for now.

[jims]

I always found N110 harder to find than 4759 but nearly identical/ interchangeable in use except the N powders cleaner. You are lucky to have it. I thought once SW had some problems with 110 with loss of speed in the cold. You could check with him on that.

[dannoboone]

The N110/N120 loads were very temperature sensitive.
Has there been any testing for temp sensitivity with
N110 being duplexed with other powders such as 4198?

I plan on testing N110 with 3031 within the next week.

[deadeer]

Nov 26, 2014 0:16:52 GMT -5 dannoboone said:

The N110/N120 loads were very temperature sensitive.
Has there been any testing for temp sensitivity with
N110 being duplexed with other powders such as 4198?

I plan on testing N110 with 3031 within the next week.

Experienced the n110-n120 debacle last season myself. It IS true, those two powders do not agree with each other. I have duplexed with n110-h4198 in my 50 for a few years and had NO problem at all. Still have several pounds but have went to sr4759 lately and it is doing good.

Jay

[mike243]

I don't duplex but the straight n110 went bang at about 6-8 degree last year at the range. shot it at 12d last week and it was fine

[sw]

During testing with the ML and ML 2, VV-110 was the most temp stable powder. Using 44-46g-250&300g XTPs at temps of 0(yes, back in 1999-2000 temps dropped that low in NE AR & SE MO) to 80+, VV-110 often had less that 100'/sec over that 80 degree spread. At 45-46g often there was little difference period. Hard to believe but true. Strangely, VV-120 60g 250 XTP was relatively temp stable but 110/120 10/60 250XTP was unbelievably temp sensitive with >700'/sec drop over 70-80 degree drop. 2700'/sec to below 2000'/sec. A bunch of us experienced this in the early 2000s. Makes no sense to me. Maybe we shouldn't☺️ "Mix" powders.
Back to the subject, using VV-110 as the booster powder isn't substituting; rather, it was the initial booster. SR. 4759 was used as the " substitute" since VV-110 is sold by fewer dealers. Then SR 4759 became more commonly used but is a lesser powder.
I no longer pursue max velocities. In my 50 cal, I'm shooting 250TMZs and 275 MH with 44-45g VV-110, in my 45s(except 1) im still working on my final loads but will be between 35-41g VV-110/195B/200SST, Yes, velocities will be slightly lower than obtainable otherwise, but groups will be very small, velocities and impact points at 200-300 yds will be much more consistent across wide temp spreads.
The(50 cal) 45g VV-110/250TMZ load is 2400+'/sec and 41gVV-110(45) 200SST is 2500'/sec+. Both are well sub-MOA.
Summary, if I could only have 1 powder, it'd be VV-110.

[cowhunter]

I agree 109% with Jim's. Both powders are interchangeable and both good boosters. I bought a lot of each when I first started because they were often mentioned. Now with the .040!bushings, the n110 can slip through the plug a little easier because it is a little smaller, but you can just leave the old primer in until you are loaded.

[edge]

I like 4759 since it is so bulky which helps prevent powder from entering an enlarged vent hole.
Since I am almost out and since I have a couple of pounds of N110 I wanted to see what modifications would be needed.
I wanted to use H322 since I have a lot of that too.
So I went to TGinPa's pressure trace thread and searched for 4759, Clays, and N110 as boosters with H322

Here is what I found, draw your own conclusions :

61c) PN45 4759m/h322 5/69gr 195bx 3/7/2012 ?FPS @ 33K

62c) PN45 4759m/h322 5/68gr 195bx 3/7/2012 2870FPS @ 33k

19d) PN45 N110/H322 10/60gr 300rem jhp .448x4 vwool 4/13/12 2620FPS @ 49k

4e) PN45 4759p/h322 11/47gr 250ftx 7/2/12 2350FPS @ 32K

6e) PN45 4759p/H322 12/58gr 250tez 7/26/12 2575FPS @ 32K

7e) PN45 4759p/H322 12/58gr 250ftx 7/26/12 2620FPS @ 32K

24f) PN45 N110/H322 11/59gr 250tez fiber/wool 12/17/12 2740FPS @ 39K

41f) PN45 N110/H322 10/59gr 275be veg 1/30/13 2710FPS @ 45K

42f) PN45 N110/H322 10/59gr 275mh veg 1/31/13 2700FPS @ 44K

50H) PN45 N110/H322 11/59gr 290tez wool 11/8/13 2500FPS @ 42K

16I) PN45 N110/H322 10/60gr 327mh vwool 1/9/14 2500FPS @ 50K

21I) PN45 N110/H322 10/60gr 300speer vwool 1/31/14 normal v loose seating 2550FPS @ 46K

48I) PN45 N110/H322 15/57gr 327mh 1.7x1 veg d f209 4/4/14 2590FPS @ 54K

                CLAYS

50g) PN45 CLAYS/H322 10/65gr 225ftx veg 5/22/13   2868 FPS @ 42k

54g) PN45 CLAYS/H322 12/65gr 225ftx veg 5/30/13   2898FPS @ 42.5K

55g) PN45 CLAYS/H322 5/70gr 225ftx veg 5/30/13   2842FPS @ 36.6K

56g) PN45 CLAYS/H322 12/65gr 250be veg 5/30/13   2788FPS @ 43K


61c) PN45 4759m/h322 5/69gr 195bx 3/7/2012 ?FPS @ 33K


62c) PN45 4759m/h322 5/68gr 195bx 3/7/2012 2870FPS @ 33k



19d) PN45 N110/H322 10/60gr 300rem jhp .448x4 vwool 4/13/12 2620FPS @ 49k
Note: Downslope flattening is probably artifact.



4e) PN45 4759p/h322 11/47gr 250ftx 7/2/12 2350FPS @ 32K


6e) PN45 4759p/H322 12/58gr 250tez 7/26/12 2575FPS @ 32K



7e) PN45 4759p/H322 12/58gr 250ftx 7/26/12 2620FPS @ 32K




24f) PN45 N110/H322 11/59gr 250tez fiber/wool 12/17/12 2740FPS @ 39K



41f) PN45 N110/H322 10/59gr 275be veg 1/30/13 2710FPS @ 45K


42f) PN45 N110/H322 10/59gr 275mh veg 1/31/13 2700FPS @ 44K



50H) PN45 N110/H322 11/59gr 290tez wool 11/8/13 2500FPS @ 42K



16I) PN45 N110/H322 10/60gr 327mh vwool 1/9/14 2500FPS @ 50K


21I) PN45 N110/H322 10/60gr 300speer vwool 1/31/14 normal v loose seating 2550FPS @ 46K


48I) PN45 N110/H322 15/57gr 327mh 1.7x1 veg d f209 4/4/14 2590FPS @ 54K






50g) PN45 CLAYS/H322 10/65gr 225ftx veg 5/22/13   2868 FPS @ 42k


54g) PN45 CLAYS/H322 12/65gr 225ftx veg 5/30/13   2898FPS @ 42.5K


55g) PN45 CLAYS/H322 5/70gr 225ftx veg 5/30/13   2842FPS @ 36.6K


56g) PN45 CLAYS/H322 12/65gr 250be veg 5/30/13   2788FPS @ 43K

[Dave W]

IMO They are close but not quite compatible. Good example here:

N110 spikes the pressure quicker and yields more velocity.  I have to alter ratios if I sub one for the other to get comparable accuracy. For instance, 11/59 N110/H322 and 12/58 4759/H322 both deliver similar accuracy with the 275 BE but the N110 boosted load is approximately 50fps faster and just a little more consistent.

FWIW I have better luck when duplexing H4198 if I use 4759 or Red Dot as the booster, dependent upon which bullet, caliber, sabot or sabotless. For some reason N110 has never delivered the accuracy I was looking for when mated with H4198.
 With H322, N110 is my preferred booster for the most part but Red Dot has given me some very consistent results when those two have been mated together.