Entry Hole Question

[boilermaker]

So, I have a Rem 700 ML with PacNor 45 Cal. barrel. I use 62 grains H4198, 200 gr. Hornady SST, and Harvester light blue sabot. Opening day of firearm season in Indiana at 950AM. Between 25 and 30 degrees. I shot at biggest buck of my life at 180 yards quartering towards me using my two elbows on my pack as a bi-pod. Of course, I missed cleanly (thank God). On my way to confirm that I had missed him, I was walking very slowly and quietly when a doe came in. I let her (turned out to be button buck, dang it) get about 20 to 30 yds and squeezed trigger. He did not run far. Upon retrieving, he had a hole larger than softball behind shoulder on the ENTRY wound. Several ribs were destroyed in this area. The exit wound was normal sized. Any thoughts? This was my first smokeless mz kill too.

[Deleted]

A sst has a lot of splat capability at 20yds and moving at the full muzzle velocity. Glad it was still a good ethical kill, I would keep them in the boiler room for sure at close distance just to be safe.

[boilermaker]

Wow. I had no idea. I am fairly new to smokeless mz. What range do they have to be at before they behave like a "normal" round from a "normal" gun?

[jims]

I do not recall any shots with that bullet much closer than 85 yards but at that range and beyond they have done well, nothing like you described at that close range.

[madcityhoosier]

Good timing... I've got a 20-yard impact story with the 200 SST that I just typed up. Very similar results.

dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/16389/200sst-hair-speed-close-range

That little 200 SST dumped a lot of energy in the first few inches of penetration due to its very high impact speed. I've shot a couple of deer with the 200 SST at 200 yards or more, and those kills were more 'normal.' I'll keep using the 200 SST, but I would recommend staying away from bone (shoulders).

[fishhawk]

I like the 195 Barnes just for the reasons posted above. It stays in one piece much better. May not be quite as accurate, but still minute of deer.

[boilermaker]

I've got some 195 Barnes, but I don't think I've ever shot any of them. How much difference in precision are we talking? After my miss on the buck at 180, I don't know that I want to go much over 125 for a while. On a side note, I use the Hornady SST slugs in my 12 gauge. I was using my Mossberg 500 Saturday morning (use it in dense woods and MZ on fields). Had a doe broadside at 30 yds. Squeezed the trigger and CLICK. Primer looked well dented, and the darn thing didn't fire.

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2014 22:12:58 GMT -5 madcityhoosier said:

That little 200 SST dumped a lot of energy in the first few inches of penetration due to its very high impact speed. I've shot a couple of deer with the 200 SST at 200 yards or more, and those kills were more 'normal.' I'll keep using the 200 SST, but I would recommend staying away from bone (shoulders).

I know there are quite a few people who like the Barnes better than the Hornady however just like madcityhoosier said the Hornady dumps allot of energy in the animal which I really like. I shot a doe on Thursday at 232 yards and I had a complete pass threw and from the way the holes looked I had great expansion. I didn't hit the shoulders but I have no doubt that if I would have I would still have retrieved the doe. Now this is with the 250 SST sabotless around 2800 f/s but I feel you should have save results with the 200 SST also.

We did have one deer get away that was shot at with the 250 SST however from what we saw the shooter missed the deer. We didn't see any blood, hair, or any other sign that he got the deer. We looked for several hours all over the place. Felt really bad for my friend cause we believe it was the 180" we were chasing all week. Either way what I'm saying is if you put the bullet in the pump station the deer doesn't have a chance if not then you'll lose the deer. This is with any bullet.

[hankinsrfls]

Exactly what 78riverrat said... Bullet placement is the key to killing cleanly and quickly... Jeff..

[edge]

Pistol bullets can be unpredictable to say the least

At 30-40 yards I have nearly amputated the front leg of a deer with an XTP due to explosive nature at smokeless velocities.
Even at longer ranges you can get more expansion than you might expect.

The pictures in this thread are probably similar to yours from 2004 but the results are from a much longer range:

dougva.proboards.com/thread/1721/sst-wound-pictures-gory

edge.

[olsmokey]

Edge, I know what you mean. Shot a doe broadside with an xtp at less than 20 yards and it exploded on contact. 6 in circle just breaking the skin. Never penetrated the rib cage. Knocked it down but had to finish it with my handgun.

[Mid_Tn_Plowboy]

I have had some explosive results with the Hornady 325 FTX from close range out to 300. Worst damage I've personally seen was from 80yds chest shot on doe. Dumped everything out the rear. Ruined half of both back straps, inner tender loins and severley bruised both hams. This was with black crush rib and 70gr H4198 on stock barrel. I have a pic but I think we (us here a couple years back) or I decided not to post it. My only 40cal results was at 150yds, 200xtp, SBH 10/50 N110/H322 from 28" PN pass through with some expansion by exit. May have some 200 SST results by mid week.

[12ptdroptine]

I have had great success with 200 gn sst. From 20 yda all the way to 210 yds. 210 was a pass through in the boiler room...yes there arethose who talk about the splat factor a few years back I shot a basket rack that.would fo 180lbs at 840 yds...right side high shoulder. Smashed the shoulder...xame out the left side through the arm pit area. His chin hit the ground so hard he bounced. He fot up ant ran on 3 legs...about 50 yds. Some have got it right.....its all about shot placemebt
drop

[boilermaker]

Nov 23, 2014 22:12:58 GMT -5 madcityhoosier said:

Good timing... I've got a 20-yard impact story with the 200 SST that I just typed up. Very similar results.

dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/16389/200sst-hair-speed-close-range

That little 200 SST dumped a lot of energy in the first few inches of penetration due to its very high impact speed. I've shot a couple of deer with the 200 SST at 200 yards or more, and those kills were more 'normal.' I'll keep using the 200 SST, but I would recommend staying away from bone (shoulders).

I didn't catch that boiler room analogy earlier. Just to clarify, my shot did not catch the shoulder at all. In fact, the inside of the chest cavity looked almost identical to madcityhoosier's pics. Difference is a softball sized hole on the outside of entry. I really appreciate everyone's input on this topic. I haven't been on here in a while, but you all are always very helpful and friendly.

[rangeball]

Sometimes stuff happens. I have my .50 set up to shoot the .500 250gr thor. My nephew shot a small doe at 20 yds, quartering to, shot just behind the on side shoulder, bullet sized entry, exit about mid body and a baseball size hole. No rib or other bone on entry, two ribs on exit.

Took a few steps and fell. Inside vitals were soup. I've taken several deer with this bullet and have never seen an exit like this one.

[edge]

You know there is no such thing as a perfect bullet for all situations!

Sure you can give an impact velocity and the perfect bullet can be built, but 1,000fps faster or slower and that "perfect" bullet is a dog!
I have a perfect spot for a 500+-25 yard field entry/exit point.
I also have a very good and accurate load with a 200 grain Nosler target bullet and would have zero problem pulling the trigger if the conditions were right.

The problem I have is the further I get comfortable taking a hot the closer the deer present themselves!
A few years ago I was set for this long shot and some does leave exactly where I wanted them to, but they ran, and ran, and ran until they were under 75 yards and I shot one with the sister bullet the 200 SMK.
That was the most disgusting bullet wound I have ever dealt with!

A few years later, maybe only one, I shot another doe at almost exactly 100 yards with the Nosler bullet.
The bullet only traversed the chest cavity, no shoulder and no guts.

As I trailed this deer, after about 20 or so yards I encountered 1/2 of a liver lying on the snow, and after about 100 yards I found the doe.
Are target bullets perfect, perhaps for accuracy but they can be extremely explosive at close range and some say they pencil at long range.

Personally I will shoot the most accurate bullet with the best BC that also works for the job.

edge.

[cowhunter]

Nice shot. We all miss the big ones occasionally. I'm with Fishawk as to bullet selection. Since you have them, try the Barnes 195 grain. I had just as good accuracy as the SST and it generally kills better with less meat wasting.

[esshup]

I know from years ago, the 250g SST was known to perform more like a varmint bullet when pushed faster than 2400 fps at impact. I thought the 200g SST was known to hold up a tad better. People then went to the 250g Bonded Shockwave, but the accuracy wasn't as good as the non-bonded version. When I use my .50 cal Savage, and the 250g SST/Shockwave, my MV is right around 2350 fps. 5 feet to 168 yds, I've had no issues with the bullets expanding too fast.

In my .45, I'm using the 195g Barnes bullet because I've never had a bullet fail to do it's job, or booger up a bunch of meat at close range. After burning up 3/4 of a box of them, I found a load that the gun likes. I can't complain about a 2" wide x 3/4" tall group at 300 yds.

With the fps that we are shooting out of the smokeless ML as compared to a smoking ML, bullet selection is important with regards to how well they are supposed to preform at the fps that we are shooting, with fps at impact a key factor.

[vtecgsr95]

I know this is a not a parker discussion, but every deer Ive shot with my Pac Nor has been with a 275 MH, and every deer had a .45 cal entry hole, and usually a fist sized exit hole, and complete pass through. The only time I didn't get pass through was with my recent buck.....quartering towards me slightly @ 60 yards....it destroyed the inside, but never did exit. Never recovered the bullet.

I know the others work just fine, but these Match Hunters are brutal!

[deadeye]

if it wasn't for match hunters & adjustable sizing dies I would have lost interest in this sport

[flatlander]

I shot an antelope with a 290 barnes this fall. Extreme quartering shot, it was practically head on. The antelope was on a dead sprint for my decoy when I touched it off. I saw the antelope disappear and saw white hair fluttering to the ground. I actually shot right thru the inward shoulder blade and it exited behind the ribs on the opposite side. The entrance was the size of a coffee can. The exit was not much bigger than my thumb. It was absolutely devastating bullet performance. It exerted massive amounts of energy in the animal very rapidly. And this was at 40 yards even.

[jims]

The entrance/exit were just opposite of what I would have expected. Bullets do strange things at times but a very dead antelope.