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Post by thelefthand on Dec 25, 2012 23:00:19 GMT -5
Just fishing for some info/opinions here. If I were going to put a 45 cal smokeless deer killer bam bam stick, what would be the "best" action to use and why? I'm kicking around the idea of going this route. Of course I'm also considering getting a 358-25WSSM, and in reality I probably won't do either this coming year. If I CAN spend money, it will probably be on AR lowers and other politically incorrect hardware. As for a new deer killer, the only action I have right now is my Savage ML10-II, and I don't plan on sacrificing it for the cause  From what I've gathered so far, the Encore and H&R conversions seem to be weaker. I say that because the 50 cal load data that I see for them is way below what a lot of us shoot out of our stock Savages. The Rem 700 seems popular, but I'm guessing that's because you can find a used Rem 700 muzzle loader for less and more easily than a used Savage. As I understand it, the drawback to the Rem is that it does take in addition to new barrel, it also takes a few mods for the conversion. Can someone explain why? I'm not real familiar with the Rem muzzle loaders, but I thought they already used a 209 ignition system. Seems like it should be simple enough to mate up to a Savage breach plug. I've got to be missing something here. Are the Rem 700 conversions just as strong as the Savage? The advantages for the Savage are that it's extremely strong, and it's a straight barrel swap. Not really any "hidden" costs for the conversion unless you want to make some other upgrades at the same time. Am I any where close to right on this, or am I way out in left field (again)? Thanks, Mark |
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Post by cuda on Dec 25, 2012 23:27:39 GMT -5
I did a Stevens 200 SA .223 changed it to a 45 MacGowen barrel Savage BP and a 209 bolthead. If you want you can change it back to a center fire then back to a muzzle loader real easy. A Stevens in shooting condition is about $300 or less.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 5:08:16 GMT -5
if you already have a savage then the easiest route would be to buy a .45 barrel and swap it out, end of story. one of the reasons the remingtion is so popular is the cost of buying one vs the savage. some like the remington better once its done. as far as being any stronger, the savage has no advantage over the remington.
the factory remington uses a slamfire system with an open boltface, hence the need for the hunter conversion (boltnose/firing pin).
as for the break action guns, they are still one of the cheapest routes to go if one is going in with no donor gun. I wouldnt shoot the really heavy stuff in one but they can still make a really good deer stick..
as cuda said, the Stevens is also a good alternative if one is on a budget..
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Post by willbird on Dec 26, 2012 8:18:41 GMT -5
IMHO using a CF action, and a custom barrel with no barrel nut if it happens to be a savage or a stevens....will end up the strongest of readily avail guns due to how fat the bbl is where the Breech Plug counterbore ends up.
Bill
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Post by thelefthand on Dec 26, 2012 21:23:00 GMT -5
Sounds like I was thinking along the right track anyway. I like the Savage, and I'm not willing to sacrifice it for a project even if I'm certain that the project will be a success. It goes along the same lines of my position that I don't sell guns. I only buy them. If I'm going to spend money on something, it has to add to the current arsenal, so I'm weighing my options. With out a doner rifle of some kind to start with, it sounds like I'm looking at $800~$1000 to get a 45 that's as strong as my current Savage. For that same price (and maybe less) I can get a .358 bolt gun. For around $1200 I can get that same .358 on an AR upper that will mount to one of my existing lowers. I know this is a ML forum, but the thought of hunting deer with a semi-auto that is more than capable of sub-moa, has a 2 stage match Jewell trigger, and is more than capable of taking any game in North America past 300 yards just puts a huge grin on my face and makes me walk a little funny |
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Post by willbird on Dec 26, 2012 22:06:49 GMT -5
Well I'm looking for that 300+ yard gun that I can use in ML season ;-).
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Post by thelefthand on Dec 27, 2012 19:08:19 GMT -5
Well I'm looking for that 300+ yard gun that I can use in ML season ;-). My savage fits that bill in it's current condition. Or at least it has in the past. This year I've had some issues with it. I finally broke down last week and did some trigger work on it. It had been stock up to that point other than adjusting the set screws. I stoned it and squared it up. Much better trigger now, but I don't think that has been my issue. Need some range time to figure out whats going on with it. That's what got me started on this quest for information, but I think I can remedy what ever the problem is with my Savage and get it back into 300 yd condition without having to replace the barrel. My glass may be headed south. I'll have to wait and see. |
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Post by willbird on Dec 27, 2012 19:30:05 GMT -5
Well I'm looking for that 300+ yard gun that I can use in ML season ;-). My savage fits that bill in it's current condition. Or at least it has in the past. This year I've had some issues with it. I finally broke down last week and did some trigger work on it. It had been stock up to that point other than adjusting the set screws. I stoned it and squared it up. Much better trigger now, but I don't think that has been my issue. Need some range time to figure out whats going on with it. That's what got me started on this quest for information, but I think I can remedy what ever the problem is with my Savage and get it back into 300 yd condition without having to replace the barrel. My glass may be headed south. I'll have to wait and see. Well :-) I'd like a little more poop at 300 and a flatter trajectory....and less wind drift......all that and a bag of chips too :-) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 20:20:43 GMT -5
Well I'm looking for that 300+ yard gun that I can use in ML season ;-). My savage fits that bill in it's current condition. Or at least it has in the past. This year I've had some issues with it. I finally broke down last week and did some trigger work on it. It had been stock up to that point other than adjusting the set screws. I stoned it and squared it up. Much better trigger now, but I don't think that has been my issue. Need some range time to figure out whats going on with it. That's what got me started on this quest for information, but I think I can remedy what ever the problem is with my Savage and get it back into 300 yd condition without having to replace the barrel. My glass may be headed south. I'll have to wait and see. Lefthand... You're right on about your Savage fitting the bill for a 300yd deer killer.... Put a 300gn Barnes Original @ 2400fps in one and you'll know how much poop they actually have [more than a 250gn .45 @ 2700... If you check the trajectory tables you won't see much of a difference either..better wind drift also... My .50 Savage put a half dozen down 300yds or over... I'd still be shooting it today if I hadn't cut 3" off the barrel and ruined the long range accuracy. If it's a shooter as I remember it was...keep it and hunt with it. Zen |
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Post by willbird on Dec 27, 2012 21:18:36 GMT -5
My savage fits that bill in it's current condition. Or at least it has in the past. This year I've had some issues with it. I finally broke down last week and did some trigger work on it. It had been stock up to that point other than adjusting the set screws. I stoned it and squared it up. Much better trigger now, but I don't think that has been my issue. Need some range time to figure out whats going on with it. That's what got me started on this quest for information, but I think I can remedy what ever the problem is with my Savage and get it back into 300 yd condition without having to replace the barrel. My glass may be headed south. I'll have to wait and see. I'm thinking of bullets smaller than 45........with very high BC :-) Lefthand... You're right on about your Savage fitting the bill for a 300yd deer killer.... Put a 300gn Barnes Original @ 2400fps in one and you'll know how much poop they actually have [more than a 250gn .45 @ 2700... If you check the trajectory tables you won't see much of a difference either..better wind drift also... My .50 Savage put a half dozen down 300yds or over... I'd still be shooting it today if I hadn't cut 3" off the barrel and ruined the long range accuracy. If it's a shooter as I remember it was...keep it and hunt with it. Zen |
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Post by 10ga on Jan 11, 2013 15:07:45 GMT -5
He's feeding the addiction! Just find a configueration that you like and fits you. Then go from there. Personally I like my single shot guns for any MLing.(have 2 MLIIs and a 700ml also) So current project is another barrel, long and heavy, for the Encore. As for power the break action SMLs will shoot right with the bolt guns. Heck they put about any cartridge you can think of in them and the breechplug does the holding anyway. 1shot1kill posted a list of probably over 40 different action guns he has converted. If ya like the bolt guns a Stevens or 700ML conversion is probably the easiest way to go. If yo don't mind filddling around with primer holders/buttons then there are a whole lot of ways to go. Locally here in central VA several smiths seem to favor the Howa for their SML builds. $.02 worth. 10 ga
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Post by willbird on Jan 11, 2013 20:55:33 GMT -5
One thing the break opens offer is a longer barrel for a given overall length, you could easily have a 30" barrel on an encore to the same oal of gun to a 26" bolt action.
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Post by 10ga on Jan 11, 2013 21:17:25 GMT -5
my reason for not shooting the hotter loads in the Encore is recoil. The H&R and Encore conversions are considerably lighter than the bolt guns and that means you get to the objectionable recoil level with lighter loads. I use my conversion for woods hunting and really don't need the powerhouse rounds, it'll shoot 150 way easier than black powder or the subs and I can nail at 200 so I'm still ahead in the game. More opinions are free and easy. Best, 10 ga
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