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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 18:39:29 GMT -5
Here's the results of today's shooting. Temp: 25-35 F Wind 5 mph when I started, 15-20 mph when I quit. All groups are 3 shots only. Savage SS with .45 cal 25" Pacnor barrel from Luke Leupold 4.5-14X VX3 CDS Sighted in 3 " high at 100 yards 300 grain Parker Match bullet 1 wad 70 grains IMR 4198 CCI-M primer No Chronograph was used I was shooting in a field with a wind break blocking the wind somewhat, at least until it picked up to 15-20mph.
500 yards: 7 1/8" group 64.5" low
600 yards 6 7/8" group 108" low
700 yards 25 1/2" group (2 bullets within 10" side-to-side the 3rd bullet was 25" low, slower velocity I'm guessing) 171" low
800 yards 17 5/8" group ( 2 bullets within 5 3/4" of each other vertically, 3rd shot 17" horizontally, the wind was really gusting when this group was shot) 281" low
I'd liked to have shot more but I ran out of time. And the wind was really starting to goof things up. When I started shooting, the wind didn't effect my groups at all. But the 700 and 800 yard groups I had to try and time the wind gusts to get the shots off at the right time. I was using a ballistic chart. I started out using a multipltier of 1.28 at 500 and 600 yards for whatever the chart said my bullet drop was supposed to be. I based that on my results at 400 yards. At 700 and 800 yards I used a multiplier of 1.2 for the ballistic charts. I was within 8"-17" of center for the main parts of all my groups. (the 25" low bullet at 700 yards is not included in that calculation, that was the only vertical flyer out of all of my groups, slow velocity?)
The only horizontal flyer was the bullet that was 17" off of the main group at 800 yards. (do I get to blame that one on the wind? It was really gusting up and down.)
Came back home and shot a .875" 3 shot group at 100 yards , but the group was only 1" high at 100 yards after I reset the scope dials. The dials did not "Zero" themselves vertically, since I normally have the gun sighted in at 3" high at 100 yards.
For me the 14X actually worked all right at 800 yards. I was surprised. I still think I'd like to have a 20X scope for long range shooting though.
Next time I shoot 500- 800 yards I'll make sure I have more time and make sure there is going to be absolutely no wind at all. But that is a very rare occurance around here. All in all, I think it shot pretty well except for the 2 flyers in the 700 and 800 yard groups.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 19:06:14 GMT -5
very good info, stay at it....
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Post by lwh723 on Feb 5, 2012 20:41:35 GMT -5
We're going to start calling you "Quigley"!
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Post by jgss2 on Feb 5, 2012 20:59:41 GMT -5
Good stuff. I just started with the 300 Parkers today as well. I don't know if I have ever saw a bullet that look so well made!
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Post by slim23 on Feb 5, 2012 21:05:44 GMT -5
wow. great info. great shooting
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Post by edge on Feb 5, 2012 22:05:09 GMT -5
WOW! Any pics on the targets? You certainly have our attention edge.
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ukwildcat
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Post by ukwildcat on Feb 5, 2012 23:37:47 GMT -5
All 8" inches from center is best news. Keep reporting
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 23:38:29 GMT -5
WOW! Any pics on the targets? You certainly have our attention edge. Like I said before, I built the gun that I'm shootin', but I can't figure out how to post pics. I'll email them to Luke, and ask him if he'll post them for me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 23:43:54 GMT -5
All 8" inches from center is best news. Keep reporting I goofed. On my 800 yard group the center of the group was actually 17" low from the bullseye I was aiming at. ( Trying to type and watch the Super Bowl doesn't work well.) I was basically guessing as to where the groups would be based on what the ballistics chart told me. My target was on a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood with some back braces. So I had a little room for error.
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 6, 2012 18:26:34 GMT -5
For the guys that live in shotgun and muzzleloader only states I can truly understand your quest for long range performance. So I will give you a lot of credit with the results you have posted.
I know it involves at lot of time and money to test these guns. But by the group sizes you have posted. Especially for only 3 shot groups. Tells me your gun is not up to the level that is required of a accurate rifle and load to succesfully harvest deer or any other big game animals beyond 400yrds. on a good day.
long range hunting is a sport that does require the very best in equipment. A good rifle should be able to place at least 5 shots inside 3.5'' at 600yrds. at 1000yrds a good hunting rifle should be able to place 5 shots well within 6" . A full blown heavy benchgun must be able to shoot consistantly in the 4" range for 10 shots to be competitive.
I have been a serious long range hunter for over 35 yrs. Shooting paper is totally different than killing game. For the guys that really want to learn how to shoot and load. The 1000yrd club in Williamsport, Pa. will be holding two schools this summer. One for beginners and one for more experienced shooters. I believe it runs for 3 days. You get teamed up with a hall of fame instructor and they even supply the guns to shoot for a reasonble fee.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 19:04:53 GMT -5
For the guys that live in shotgun and muzzleloader only states I can truly understand your quest for long range performance. So I will give you a lot of credit with the results you have posted. I know it involves at lot of time and money to test these guns. But by the group sizes you have posted. Especially for only 3 shot groups. Tells me your gun is not up to the level that is required of a accurate rifle and load to succesfully harvest deer or any other big game animals beyond 400yrds. on a good day. long range hunting is a sport that does require the very best in equipment. A good rifle should be able to place at least 5 shots inside 3.5'' at 600yrds. at 1000yrds a good hunting rifle should be able to place 5 shots well within 6" . A full blown heavy benchgun must be able to shoot consistantly in the 4" range for 10 shots to be competitive. I have been a serious long range hunter for over 35 yrs. Shooting paper is totally different than killing game. For the guys that really want to learn how to shoot and load. The 1000yrd club in Williamsport, Pa. will be holding two schools this summer. One for beginners and one for more experienced shooters. I believe it runs for 3 days. You get teamed up with a hall of fame instructor and they even supply the guns to shoot for a reasonble fee. So when a 200"+ buck walks out in front of me at 500 yards when I'm hunting in Iowa are you telling me not to take the shot? Even when the gun shot a 6 7/8" group at 600 yards? I've seen some bucks in Southern Iowa that could give a guy a heart attack. And when they're out 400+ yards they were pretty much laughin' at me. Not anymore. I'm the one who's giggling now. The one thing I will be very thankful for is all the help on this website, whether was with building the gun or whatever silly questions I've had. But I'll be the one to decide to take the 500-800 yard shots. Thanks. So my slug gun that shoots 6-8" groups at 200 yards is not capable of shooting deer at 200 yards? I understand schooling could help a guy out at shooting long ranges. But, the bench for my 500 yard range is about 23 yards from my front door. It's always open. I've shot this gun more at 400 yards than I have at 100 yards. This is just the beginning for this gun. With a new scope at 5-20X and about $500 more of 300 grain Parker bullets I should be fairly proficient at shooting longer distances. It's going to be my decision to take a long shot or not. Thanks
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Post by nwtflogan on Feb 6, 2012 19:19:42 GMT -5
great shooting,,,,and im pretty sure those iowa bucks have the big 14-20" chests as we have in ohio, if im putting them at under 7" at 600 yards, and i know my muzzleloader as it appears earnhardt does, im taking the shot with a solid rest and wind calcualted in.....i understand a good hunting rifle can cut that in half or more at thos distances but were talking about muzzleoaders that just dont shoot as flat and fast out at those distances so i think most here know theyre guns intimately because this is a whole new level of long range shooting......still under 6" at 600 is a dead mature whitetail in anyones books,,,,,,,,,,keep up the great shooting there earnhardt it gives alot of guys like me useful info when we cant get to shoot out past 200 very often!!!
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Post by lwh723 on Feb 6, 2012 19:25:23 GMT -5
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Post by bugeye on Feb 6, 2012 20:33:35 GMT -5
For the guys that live in shotgun and muzzleloader only states I can truly understand your quest for long range performance. So I will give you a lot of credit with the results you have posted. I know it involves at lot of time and money to test these guns. But by the group sizes you have posted. Especially for only 3 shot groups. Tells me your gun is not up to the level that is required of a accurate rifle and load to succesfully harvest deer or any other big game animals beyond 400yrds. on a good day. long range hunting is a sport that does require the very best in equipment. A good rifle should be able to place at least 5 shots inside 3.5'' at 600yrds. at 1000yrds a good hunting rifle should be able to place 5 shots well within 6" . A full blown heavy benchgun must be able to shoot consistantly in the 4" range for 10 shots to be competitive. I have been a serious long range hunter for over 35 yrs. Shooting paper is totally different than killing game. For the guys that really want to learn how to shoot and load. The 1000yrd club in Williamsport, Pa. will be holding two schools this summer. One for beginners and one for more experienced shooters. I believe it runs for 3 days. You get teamed up with a hall of fame instructor and they even supply the guns to shoot for a reasonble fee. Blah,blah,blah blah,blah really
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Post by spoonover on Feb 6, 2012 20:37:20 GMT -5
You are one heck of a shot with that ML. +1 on the "Quigley"! When the wind kicks up I have read a wind block can hurt more than help, think they were referring to berms?
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Post by dannoboone on Feb 6, 2012 21:03:19 GMT -5
There was a time when long range center fire was also in its infancy.
Go get'em, Earnhardt! Very good shootin', for a smokeless pole! ;D
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Post by deadeye on Feb 6, 2012 21:15:38 GMT -5
earnhardt- with the info you have given & me looking at these targets. #1-need to find the cause of the low bullet-imo-you are close but like you say not complete. it might be possible to eliminate this with just a slight adjustment on the swinglock die(1/2 hash mark tighter(larger bullet) to see if this eliminates the low one. i would get ready @ 100yd then go immediately to 600-800yds for 3 shot groups after adjustment to see if it dissappears. if not>>>>>>>>> it might be possible also a duplex might be needed to take care of this also. in my 325be thread a duplex of h4198/3031 15/67 was great there but in limited test w/300match i was showing vertical of 2-3.5'' @ 204yd bench here suggesting gas seepage causing high -low at this range. different bullets even close in weight acting differently the board here i'm sure will help you if you elect them too on help in this area finding a main then boosting it. i have an idea but there are much better powder/pressure minds here than me. i think your trigger pulling is excellent, take notice on the 800yd only 5 3/4'' vertical but the wind probably got you on that horizontal one. 500,600& 700 all had one low one-that needs to be addressed. you do have some real world field reports that will come in handy later. it takes a lot of time & i commend you on that & don't quit
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2012 21:36:13 GMT -5
Bullet sizing right now with the Swing Lock Full Form die I'm at "0". And it gets kinda tight. Alot of the time I have to use a rubber mallet to tap the ramrod home the last 3-5". Some of the times I have to use the mallet to push the bullet the whole way down. It surprisingly doesn't effect the accuracy. I only have shot about 80 shots through the gun so far and really have done very little experimenting with it. I hit with the powder and Swing lock dial combo right away, and haven't changed it since. The next box of 300 Parkers, I'm gonna try knurling and try shooting without a wad to see what the results are. But man! This gun shoots 1" groups all day long at 100 yards. I've got nothing to lose by experimenting though. You guys are punching 3/4" holes all day with your 200 grain saboted loads. As for long range shooting, I'll be the first to admit, that I've got alot to learn. Not just about shooting techniques, but learning about how wind, humidity etc... effect my shooting and groups. I'm going to build a small bench now that I'm shooting longer distances so I have a sturdier rest than the tailgate of my truck. I'll do the shooting at the crack of dawn to insure the wind in minimal. I just want to know what the gun, and myself, are capable of. I want there to be no variables, so I only have myself to blame for the "flyers". Thanks for all the help guys. I'm having a blast!
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Post by Richard on Feb 6, 2012 21:45:29 GMT -5
Definitely good shooting Earnhardt! Richard
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Post by jgss2 on Feb 6, 2012 21:47:57 GMT -5
How awesome is it to be talking about shooting 800yds with a muzzleloader. I am dialed in at 200 with my 300 parkers. I just wish I had a place here in SW Pennsylvania that I could go and shoot 500+ yds.
Good Stuff...Very Interesting!!!
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Post by Jon on Feb 6, 2012 22:02:07 GMT -5
jgss2. If you don't mind my asking where in south west Pa I'm out side of Allentown?
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Feb 7, 2012 6:03:22 GMT -5
What is the speed of your bullet at 800 yds? It is probably under 1000 fps? Probably about like hitting a deer with a .45 ACP hardball load.
In that regard I would think a perfect angle and perfect hit hit would be a bare minimum requirement.
Assuming you could hold a 6-8 inch group all day long....have an absolute rock solid rest...and no wind.....accurate repeatable turrets.....and a great spotting scope to verify a 200+" deer....and a range finder that is amazing.....and a still deer..you might make a high percentage shot. For actual hunting I prefer to get closer and guarantee a kill
In any event, it's still good shooting. And yes, you can take any shot you want....we hear hundreds of shots each season and I'm sure a certain percentage of those are low percentage shots. Not against the law.
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Post by edwardamason on Feb 7, 2012 7:28:15 GMT -5
What is the speed of your bullet at 800 yds? It is probably under 1000 fps? Probably about like hitting a deer with a .45 ACP hardball load. In that regard I would think a perfect angle and perfect hit hit would be a bare minimum requirement. Assuming you could hold a 6-8 inch group all day long....have an absolute rock solid rest...and no wind.....accurate repeatable turrets.....and a great spotting scope to verify a 200+" deer....and a range finder that is amazing.....and a still deer..you might make a high percentage shot. For actual hunting I prefer to get closer and guarantee a kill In any event, it's still good shooting. And yes, you can take any shot you want....we hear hundreds of shots each season and I'm sure a certain percentage of those are low percentage shots. Not against the law. This
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 8:24:27 GMT -5
What is the speed of your bullet at 800 yds? It is probably under 1000 fps? Probably about like hitting a deer with a .45 ACP hardball load. In that regard I would think a perfect angle and perfect hit hit would be a bare minimum requirement. Assuming you could hold a 6-8 inch group all day long....have an absolute rock solid rest...and no wind.....accurate repeatable turrets.....and a great spotting scope to verify a 200+" deer....and a range finder that is amazing.....and a still deer..you might make a high percentage shot. For actual hunting I prefer to get closer and guarantee a kill In any event, it's still good shooting. And yes, you can take any shot you want....we hear hundreds of shots each season and I'm sure a certain percentage of those are low percentage shots. Not against the law. Actually a .45 ACP has only 350-380 ft lbs of energy at the barrel. The Ballistics chart says at 800 yards my bullet is moving at 1236 fps. And Energy is at 1018 ft.lbs And like I said before, I'll make the decision whether I take the shot or not. Curious here, if a hunter has a short barreled .30-06 carbine that shoots 6" groups at 300 yards with a 1.75-6X scope, would you tell him not to take the shot at 300 yards?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 9:12:07 GMT -5
Take the shot,Don't take the shot. IMO are you ready NOW? No . Will you be next hunting season I believe so..... You just started this and are making great progress, Deadeye and others here have been reaching out for awhile now and hopefully can help you shorten your learning curve time. Way to go .....and keep sending those pics to Luke so he can post them 4u,lol..... Greenhorn
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 9:21:39 GMT -5
Take the shot,Don't take the shot. IMO are you ready NOW? No . Will you be next hunting season I believe so..... You just started this and are making great progress, Deadeye and others here have been reaching out for awhile now and hopefully can help you shorten your learning curve time. Way to go .....and keep sending those pics to Luke so he can post them 4u,lol..... Greenhorn I'll agree with that. Parker Bullets is going to get rich off of me.
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Post by jgss2 on Feb 7, 2012 9:42:14 GMT -5
jgss2. If you don't mind my asking where in south west Pa I'm out side of Allentown? South of Pittsburgh.. Little town called Connellsville
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Post by jgss2 on Feb 7, 2012 9:47:58 GMT -5
What is the speed of your bullet at 800 yds? It is probably under 1000 fps? Probably about like hitting a deer with a .45 ACP hardball load. In that regard I would think a perfect angle and perfect hit hit would be a bare minimum requirement. . I am shooting 68grs with the same bullet. My chronographed velocity is right at 2600. According to my ballistic software, I am 1238fps at 800yds and have 1021 ftlbs of energy. At ...1000 the bullet is still going 1066fps. Earnhardt...Great Thread!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 10:17:20 GMT -5
What is the speed of your bullet at 800 yds? It is probably under 1000 fps? Probably about like hitting a deer with a .45 ACP hardball load. In that regard I would think a perfect angle and perfect hit hit would be a bare minimum requirement. . I am shooting 68grs with the same bullet. My chronographed velocity is right at 2600. According to my ballistic software, I am 1238fps at 800yds and have 1021 ftlbs of energy. At ...1000 the bullet is still going 1066fps. Earnhardt...Great Thread!! Thanks! It's absolutely crazy what the 300 grain Parker bullets are capable of at long range! That BC at .420 really makes itself shown at long distances. If you say you don't have any long distance ranges where you're at, ask a farmer who has some flat land in a rural area if you can do some long range shooting now that the crops are out. All he can say is no. Long range shooting is a blast!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 10:21:16 GMT -5
Now since Elkman is talking longe range I just got certified with my new TruLazer that I got.,it will fry an animal at 5 miles. I tried it on an antelope and when I went to retrieve it, it was ready to eat when I got to him. The curvature of the earth is what plays hell with the BEAM but gravity compensates and actually bends it some also............. Greenhorn
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