Range report new Harvester BT sabots

[artjr338wm]

I had heard and then confirmed at Harvester's website that they had a new Crushed Ribbed sabot for use with Barnes/Knight boat tailed bullets. I ended up ordering some from Harvester direct as I did not want to risk they may not be available in stores until fall, and I wished to try them in the cooler temps of late winter/early spring. I find my 10ML-II achieves it best accuracy most easily when temps are at or below 45*.

Like meny other members of this website, I bought several hundred of the Knight Ultra Slam AKA Barnes TMZ all copper bullets in 290 grain and several hundred of the 245 grain Knight Spitfires. I had shot both out of my 10ML-II in the past. The 245 grain Spitfires performed extremely well. The 290grn USS/TMZs shot quite well also, but not as well or consistently as the Spitfires did.

As fate would have it my 10ML-II loves Harvester black CR sabots and shoots them lights out with two different .458 caliber bullets. One is the Barnes "O" the other is S-Eaters Mod/Rems. So when I found out Harvester was producing a sabot specifically for use with Barnes all copper boat tailed bullets, I wished to try some ASAP. I finally got that chance today. This was a spur of the moment range trip, as I unexpectedly found myself able to go and also having the weather cooperating for near perfect range conditions. The only down side was I was not able to take as meny shots as I would normally as I arrived at the range about 1.5hrs after it opened instead of parked waiting for the DNR to unlock the gate for me. My shooting time was also limited as I had to re-zero my scope as I had removed it for use on a back up rifle for my 08 elk trip. After bore sighting the scope, I went to the fifty yard range to get me on paper. Much to my not so happy surprise, it took me 16 shots using 300 grain XTPs and both HPH12s and 24s before I was getting good groups after scope adjustments were made. I was beginning to think I was in for a bad day at the range, as I was use to much better accuracy much sooner than this based on passed range sessions. But I had not shot my 10ML-II in a long time so I did not panic yet. Now for the good stuff. Rifle and components used.

<>10ML-II in stainless steel with laminated stock featuring the fallowing modifications performed by RBnAR:
*Glass bed the action
*Third pillar and action screw installed
*Breach plug has drill bushing installed (no need for VL)
*Trigger adjusted to 3.5lbs

<>Load components used:
*290 grain Knight/Barnes TMZ
-First three shot knurled up to between .4510-.4515"
-Next nine shot knurled up to between .4530-.4535"
*Harvester yellow Crushed Ribbed sabot specifically designed for use with Barnes boat tailed all copper ML bullets.
*Powder used was 75 grain charges of RL-10X

<>I used the fallowing IBSCM:
*Take 2.25" cotton patch wet with action cleaner place over .50cal nylon bore brush and run from muzzle to plug, remove flip over repeat and discard.

<>Loading procedure used:
#1-poor 75 grains of RL-10X down bore
#2-tap rifle butt hard in wood block on concrete 2x
#3-place sabot/bullet in barrel indexed to rifling, use all brass short starter tipped with Knight bullet aligner W/muzzle guard to start sabot/bullet down bore.
#4-use all brass on piece T-handle range rod to finish seating bullet/sabot on top of powder, once seated press hard for 1001,2,3 count.
#5-place in shooting rest, prime and fire.

After all the time I spent shooting to get on paper and pre pair for 100yrd groups, I was unfortunately only able to take four 100yrd three shot groups with the above 290 grain TMZ and new Harvester yellow CR sabot for BT bullets. The good news was three out of four three shot groups all three bullets were touching and not one group was larger than 1.25" C-C. To say I was happy with this new sabot/bullet combo is putting it mildly. But I was not all that surprised as I did shoot one 50yrd three shot group and it literally formed one itsy-bitsy hole that I actually did cover with a nickle. I will also add the larger (knurled) .4530-.4535" shot slightly better with no fliers than the smaller .451-.4515" bullets, and that is the size I am going to go with in the future. Im sure each rifle will most likely differ in what it likes.

Now that I have the bugs worked out I will split my next range session between 30% at 100yrds and 70% at 200yrds, as 200yrds will really determine this bullets potential or lack there of.

Once again I learned that consistent loading pressure is the God of ML accuracy. My one and only flier of the day with the 290grn TMZs I called it before I even primed the gun. While loading it simply was to easy to load as compared to the others and it caused a otherwise MOA group to open up to a 1.25" four shot 100yrd group, still well within my personal accuracy standards.

Now that I have a VG digital camera with soft wear I will attempt to post some pictures after I read over and completely understand how to do so in the "tips and hints section" on how to post pictures. I also took nine shots with my Encore 209x50 using BH209 and Harvester PT Gold bullets, but that is a range review for a different board here.

I'm not saying based on my results alone that everyone who has Barnes boat tailed bullets and are not happy with the way they shoot out of your 10ML-II to run out and buy these new Harvester Sabots and they will shoot well out of your gun. All I am saying is they shot very well out of my 10ML-II based on a single limited range session of twelve shots at 100yrds and three at 50yrds for a total of only 15 shots. And NONE at all at 200yrds. So please keep that in mind before you decide to buy any of the new Harvester yellow CR sabots for use with Barnes BT bullets.

I am relay chomping at the bit to see how they perform at 200yrds. That will be the real acid test for this bullet/sabot combo.

I must also give the overwhelming majority of the credit for my success to people like RBnAR, Edge, Doug Edwards, RAF, and Rifleman who gave me so much help and advice on TMZs and Spitfires. Thanks to you all for all your help that without I would be no where near the level of success I presently enjoy.

Thats all I have for now, Hope to get back th the range in less than a week, but it is supposed to rain most of the next week starting this Sunday, and I have a family day planed for tomorrow just for that reason.

Thanks again, what a great website.

Be well,
Arthur.

[ET]

Artjr338

Enjoyed ready your post and the detail provided. Unless I missed it I didn’t find any wait time for bore cooling mentioned. In 45F temp I find little is needed until you hit 50F and above.

I definitely agree a good fit and a consistent as possible loading pressure helps for an accurate load.
Also I don’t tap my ML after pouring in powder to get good results.
Do you find this necessary for your loading technique? Just asking a question here and not questioning the practice employed.

It sure is nice when you find the right combination to produce the results you did. Also you have a great base line load for referencing.

Thanks for sharing this info and results.



Ed

[encoreguy]

Excellent report. Thanks for sharing your results. Keep us posted on your 200 yard results. I love the barnes 290's but unfortunately they were very inconsistent for me, but maybe the new sabot will change that.

[onecardchuck]

Great report,
Which primer did you use and how much loading preassure did it take to load the .453 knurled bullets with that new sabot.

When you say loaded bullet and sabot indexed to the rifling. What does that mean. Sorry if this is a dumb question I am still learning.

[savedbyjc7]

thanks Art! i to have a bunch of these bullets and need the proper saybo. i shot one yesterday and it was a foot off from the rest. yikes!

[bowbender6]

Thanks - My ML shoot real good with 300 BO and BCR. I have a lot of the boattails and will have to try the new sabots.

[wilmsmeyer]

Art,

How did you get your knurled slugs up a full .003? Even with my course files I can only get .4515 at the most.

Interesting about those new sabots....another variable that may help these bullets for those that wish to try a new sabot.

[Dave W]

Mar 21, 2009 11:31:36 GMT -5 wilmsmeyer said:

Art,

How did you get your knurled slugs up a full .003? Even with my course files I can only get .4515 at the most.

Interesting about those new sabots....another variable that may help these bullets for those that wish to try a new sabot.

I think you need a different set of files, my coarse files raised the 250 TEZ up to .453 also.

[onecardchuck]

Wilmsmeyer,
I am with Dave W. I have a new set of Nicholson 12 inch bastard files and can get an all copper bullet to raise up .003 to .004.

[artjr338wm]

To answer the questions asked, ET first.
<>ET, as it was 30* ( I know this as I bring with me a battery powered portable weather monitoring device that will tell you both temp and humidity) when I started and only 43* when I finished, I did not have to wait very long for the barrel to return to the same as the outside temp, which was cool enough to ensure optimum performance of my load. I determined this by first touching one of the near by steel beams that support the roof at the range and then touch my barrel. If I could not tell any difference between the two, I felt my barrel was as cool as it was going to get. I should also thank you for reminding me that I left out one very important part of my reloading procedure. I always bring a 6'x4' table with me to hold my shooting, loading and cleaning supplies and keep them handy. On this table I also arrange all of my ML load components. After each shot I use up the time waiting for the barrel to cool by getting out and preparing my load components of one each, powder vial, bullet, sabot and primer and place them on a loading block on the shooting bench I am using. I do this to help keep only one component each EVER out at a time so as to keep the chances of double loading a powder or bullet to a small as is humanly possible because keeping the bulk of my reloading components on a separate table away from the shooting bench where I load my MLs is the best way I know how to accomplish this. I also record each shots POI and how I felt it loaded, to, tight, or loose or just rite Goldie locks. So by the time I get all this accomplished with the temps being what they were my barrel was alway as cool as it was going to get.

<>Onecardchuck, I have used primers made by CCI, Winchester and Federal, and because Federals are reputed to be the hottest 209 I use them. Never had a single (knock on wood) primer problem with any that I listed all worked well. And to be honest I never saw any accuracy difference between any of them.
<>As far as loading pressure gos all my loads that shot or shoot well all feel to me the same. I like to feel a good strong level of resistance (I'm guessing here, about 70-75lbs?) that requires a considerable but not extreme level of effort by myself to load. I'm 6'-2" and weigh around 235lbs so what seems like a strong but not extreme amount of down force to ME may seem like allot more to someone else. As I have said before IMHO being able to develop a system to maintain a consistent repeatable loading pressure shot after shot is the God of ML accuracy. I can instantly tell with certainty of 90%+ if a shot is going to be good or a flier based only on how it loads down my 10ML-II.
<>Indexing is another procedure I learned here. This is how I do it. First I take the mini-mag out of my firearm maintenance/tool tackle box along with a fine tipped black Sharpie and use the marker to indicate on my MLs muzzle where the edges of two different lands (#1 land is directly next to land #2) of my rifling begin. Once I do that I take the sabot with bullet in place and load it so two separate petals of my sabot will contact the lands as evenly spaced on each petal as is possible. The purpose of indexing your sabot to the rifling is to try to maintain as consistent a pressure as possible on the bullet/sabot combo, buy insuring you get the lands to have complete and even contact between the sabot petals/bullet and lands, and avoid having a land wind up being only partially on the sabot petal and the sabot less gap between the sabot petals. In theory it makes sense to me, but I have no proof if it works or not, but I have always done it with my 10ML-II since day one. There are at least several members here who enjoy excellent accuracy and say they never index the sabot to the rifling. You can do a search here on "indexing sabots"or at the old site and possibly get a better explanation than mine, or if anyone else reading this feels they can better explain indexing, please by all means jump in.

Wilmsmeyer, Funny you should ask if I'm sure about the TMZs OD as when I got back home from the range and before I posted my results I wanted to confirm the TMZs I shot OD. I had placed some 2" wide tape on both the inside and out of the factory container they came in listing the size I had knurled them up to. I do this with all the Knight/Barnes bullets I have knurled. I was none to pleased to find my digital caliper out of its protective case, missing the battery compartment cover, so it will not work. I subsequently banished both my sons (they both d**n well know better) from my basement until it is found. Although I can not now double check their ODs I will say I wrote down a OD of between .453 to.4535 not just on the plastic container they came in, but in my log book on 10ML-II load development using Knight USS and Spitfires, so I reasonably sure it is correct. I obtained this OD by rolling them between to course flat files for between 1 minuet five and 1 minuet ten seconds pressing as hard as I felt I could without breaking the file. I wanted to try to make them as large as I could because my dry runs of running various sizes down my barrel until I found a size that gave me a s tight a fit as would be practical for loading. In other words I would knurl a 290 TMZ up to say .4515 try it, then if I felt it was to loose, knurl some more until it measured .452, then if necessary up to .4525 and so on, until I got up to a OD of .453 to .4535 and felt I should stop there until I shot them, and at .453/.4535 they were getting as hard to load as I wished to deal with. As I said in my review the TMZs that measured .453/5 that I made the largest also shot the best, not by allot, but still just enough to chose that OD to go with.

As soon as I (hopefully) find my missing battery cover I will again measure the TMZs OD to dbl check them. I also can not knurl any more to shoot until I get my caliper working again.

I hope I answered all the questions to all who asked satisfaction, if not let me know and I will be glad to try again. I am now going to try to post some pics in the next few days so I can post a target that as luck would have it my best three shot 100yrd group and my smallest 50yrd group are both on it.

Be well,
Arthur.

PS Willsmeyer my files are also course 12" Nicholson's. I also must apologize for failing to include you in my list of people that I thanked for helping me by sharing their knowledge with me, especially your Yoda like knowledge of Knight/Barnes TMZs and Spitfires. So thanks Wil for all your help.
Arthur.

[artjr338wm]

For any interested, I have posted a picture from this range session with one 50 and one 100yrd group.

Regareds,
Arthur.