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Post by rangeball on Jan 12, 2012 10:42:29 GMT -5
At some point the used market for 700MLs is going to dry up. With savage only having limited production and at a higher price point, are builds going to be limited to encore/nef/H&R?
I assume there are laws regulating it, but would it be possible for some of the mechanically inclined here to produce a threaded action that could keep things moving forward?
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Post by fishhawk on Jan 12, 2012 10:51:18 GMT -5
Rossman40 is trying to get actions made emulating the 700ML.
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Post by rangeball on Jan 12, 2012 11:26:21 GMT -5
Sweet
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Post by cuda on Jan 12, 2012 22:11:12 GMT -5
I think Edge use a Marlin. I think it shot well maybe he will chime in. We can usr the Stevens 200 or Savage rifles to work from.
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Post by Jon on Jan 12, 2012 22:17:48 GMT -5
Cuda. I have to agree with you the Marlin looked very interesting. But have not heard anything since. There are many custom actions available but that really pushes up the price.
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Post by bugeye on Jan 12, 2012 23:19:36 GMT -5
I think Edge use a Marlin. I think it shot well maybe he will chime in. We can usr the Stevens 200 or Savage rifles to work from. I'd love to hear about that, ive got a marlin 512 slug gun, wonder if i could use that action ?
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Post by nwtflogan on Jan 14, 2012 19:58:14 GMT -5
my next build after my sons 700ml pacnor will be a browning a bolt..........NOW THATS MY ULTIMATE MUZZLELOADER....
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Post by dannoboone on Jan 14, 2012 23:00:42 GMT -5
Rangeball, there are those who have been making CF conversions to .45 smokeless for years........probably longer than Savage, or even Henry Ball made them. Richard Franklin comes to mind.
Is there such a thing as a pawn shop that does not have a bolt action of some kind on display? Most of them can be converted, and that market is not going to dry up before the flesh on most of our bones dries up.
The only thing one would have to say good-bye to would be the 209 primers. . . . or not.
I see no end to this, even if Rossman does not get there with the new 700ml-like action. Yet, he probably will.
Not to worry!
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Post by Al on Jan 15, 2012 5:20:28 GMT -5
I've tossed this idea around for a few years now, just no time to make it happen. But somebody needs to make a new Savage CF bolt nose to hold a 209, that would be sweet.
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Post by cuda on Jan 15, 2012 14:36:20 GMT -5
If some one with a CNC lathe would try to do a program and setup and run 2 or 300 bolt heads for 209 primers. You would see some nice custom guns being made. The bolt head seems to be the hard part when you convert a rifle to smokeless. I would think some hardened 4140 would work OK for a bolt head. And would you realy need the locking lugs as the BP holds all of the pressure. I think anyone with a little 7x12 table top lathe and a drill press and a dremal could make one. Time will tell if it will happen. A good shop could run a few hunderd but you would want the program that it takes to make them. That way it would be easier for more runs of the part. Just the thoughts of an old man that used to be a machinest.
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Post by nwtflogan on Jan 15, 2012 16:09:57 GMT -5
thats what im researching now,,, i will get my dream browning a-bolt medallion converted...... have a few calls out to see who will do the bolt and what it will cost, i want to use .209 and not lrc cut down...
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Post by rangeball on Jan 17, 2012 11:14:38 GMT -5
I wasn't aware that used 700 CF actions were that plentiful, or cheap We have no pawn shops around here, every used 700 I've ever seen, you might as well buy new
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Post by tar12 on Jan 18, 2012 5:56:49 GMT -5
Same here and every where I have checked. The pawn shops are just plain stupid on their prices. I dont even bother checking them anymore.
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Post by lwh723 on Jan 18, 2012 8:44:21 GMT -5
I saw a SS 700CF action on 24HR campfire for $425 last week. I thought about buying it because I'd like to do a CF conversion just once to see how it goes. But I thought too long, the thing was gone in half a day. 700ML's still have some price climbing to go before they cross over the 700CF price.
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 18, 2012 13:31:29 GMT -5
The thing with 700 CFs if they are in decent shape everyone wants top dollar, especially short actions. You can pick up rough long actions in the $200-300 range. Then there are the high demand ones like a 600/660 which go for more used then they were new.
If I was really wanting a action to build on other then a 700ML the two that catch my eye as having the most potential is a XR-100 or even more a 40X rimfire. Just finding one of those for less then $1k is a chore. You can buy a Savage target action new cheaper. The advantage of the XR-100 would be light weight but the 40X rimfire is very interesting. The CMP is offering stripped barreled actions of the 40X rimfire to members for $275, no bolt and no trigger. The bolt design of the 40X rimfire makes it interesting, you can go to a centerfire firing pin and then make you a front nose (NULA MLs are based on a 40X rimfire action) and PT&G has most of the parts and if you ever seen a NULA you can use a Savage breechplug with little modification. Since the bolt raceways do not go past the loading port and the solid floor makes it a low flex action.
A lot of the patents are getting ready to expire so in the next two years things may get interesting.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2012 21:05:54 GMT -5
lots of guys wait til the big box stores run the sa 700s on sale and buy a cart full to do cf builds on. sell the barrel/trigger/ bottom metal, throw the stock away and you still have about the same money invested as a 700ML and a nose kit
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Post by 500cadillac on Jan 18, 2012 21:37:16 GMT -5
My friend just picked up a nice blue 700ml for $185
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Post by mountainam on Jan 19, 2012 19:31:29 GMT -5
I agree with Rossman40, The Rem 40X rimfire bolt design would be the ultimate. And perhaps shortened by 1 1/4. You wouldn't need it as long to facilitate a 209 or shortened rifle case. Good luck on your design endeavors, Ken.
As for Rem 700 SA CF's, Gander Mountain ran a sale around Christmas for ADL's at 399.00 ea. You couldn't score a bare action for that.
Has anyone looked into the Mossberg 4x4's. From what I saw from afar, they look rather crude, but I'm sure they would get the job done.
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Post by bugeye on Jan 19, 2012 20:14:58 GMT -5
I agree with Rossman40, The Rem 40X rimfire bolt design would be the ultimate. And perhaps shortened by 1 1/4. You wouldn't need it as long to facilitate a 209 or shortened rifle case. Good luck on your design endeavors, Ken. A Could i do a smokeless on a rimfire 40x ?
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 19, 2012 21:29:08 GMT -5
The 40X rimfire would be a piece of cake if you have a lathe. It already is the basis for the NULA action. The bolt is a two-piece setup, So you can make you a bolt nose and cut down a firing pin. Here is what the NULA looks like, Melvin even uses a 40X rimfire extractor. You could even cut down a 40X rimfire bolt nose to take the Hunter bolt nose. On the outside the 40X rimfire action is the same as 700.
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ukwildcat
8 Pointer
No Smoking section please!
Posts: 232
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Post by ukwildcat on Jan 22, 2012 17:17:06 GMT -5
There's always the number one ruger? Price may not work for some
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 25, 2012 9:21:01 GMT -5
As far as single shots the Ruger #1 and the 1885 Winchester high-wall stands out. While the Ruger is newer design/construction so you know it is strong the 1885 was so strong it was used by Winchester/Olin ammo as a test action up until WWII. Another thing that sets these rifles apart from say the Remington rolling block is a forearm hanger so you can free float the barrel. What you run into is while Ruger can be had in the $700 range on a good day and if the stars align, a real Winchester High-wall will go over $1000 if it is a new build (Browning/FN started making them again in 2005), I think C. Sharps is making them also, or even one of the better Italian replicas and twice or three times that if it was the original build (1885-1920).
About the only advantages of a bolt action over one of these would be ease of maintenance and availability of aftermarket parts. I would take a Ruger #1 over a Encore or other break action anyday if money wasn't a factor.
If your on a budget it is tough to beat a 45-70 Handi-rifle. Tap it for a 5/8 RB special breechplug and your ready to go.
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Post by cuda on Jan 25, 2012 14:57:49 GMT -5
I still think that the Marlin XS7 or Savage or Stevens 200 rifles would be the cheapest to start with at about $300 or so. And use a Savage barrel and nut and BP. It just seam to be the easiest way to go. With PN or other good barrel the should shoot as good as any. We might not all be able to find a 700ml or good action to start with. So these would make a good starting point as they are easy to find. Might not be what you realy want but there are plenty of them out there. I have a Stevens 200 in223 that I bought to do later on. Or am I wrong in my way of thinking?
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 25, 2012 16:53:18 GMT -5
It's a personal choice when your looking for a donor action and we have proved here that you can build on just about anything. The points you want to consider is parts and accessory availability (both OEM and aftermarket) and ease of conversion and what your going to end up with. You can build on even a Mauser 98 or a Mosin/Nagant but you will end up with a boat anchor to drag around.
We know the 10ML like the back of our hand and have the 700ML down pat. Using those and the 40X rimfire would allow using the 10ML breechplug and no primer carrier. Using a centerfire you have the problem of a primer carrier and then what breechplug. The choice of using say a 700CF or a 700ML you could end up spending $100 more for a custom breechplug for the 700CF. Using the Marlin XS7, Savage or Stevens 200 rifles gives you the barrel nut which make installing and headspacing the barrel yourself a snap.
You just have to weigh the options and think ahead.
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Post by mountainam on Jan 26, 2012 19:30:18 GMT -5
Ken, What are the thread size on the NULA BP? It appears to be smaller than the 11/16"-16.
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 28, 2012 12:13:34 GMT -5
That was a photo GMB54-120 posted a while back. Thread size looks like a 5/8" with a thread of about 27-28 TPI guessing from the photo. Microphone stands use a 5/8-27.
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Post by muznut on Jan 29, 2012 14:35:09 GMT -5
Rossman I know you can build a sml on a ruger m77 but what about the 77/44?
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Post by dannoboone on Jan 29, 2012 15:05:08 GMT -5
I wasn't aware that used 700 CF actions were that plentiful, or cheap We have no pawn shops around here, every used 700 I've ever seen, you might as well buy new Same here and every where I have checked. The pawn shops are just plain stupid on their prices. I dont even bother checking them anymore. Oh, you guys, c'mon. My brother who lives in SW CO is always buying guns from a pawn broker. My brother believes in what he calls "dickering" and never pays the price tag on any of them. Unless one has their heart set on a Remington, cheaper rifles can be bought for their actions, such as the Marlington XS or the Stevens 200. Another source to look is the monthly credit union classifieds. If the price is outrageous, check to see if they are advertising it the next month. By then, their prices are no longer "set in stone".
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Post by muznut on Jan 29, 2012 15:48:06 GMT -5
I was thinking ruger m77/44 because I think the lugs are in the back not sure never handled one but if so it would work great with the 10ml2 primer carrier. Bob
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 30, 2012 22:02:35 GMT -5
The 77/44 is actually built up from the 77/22 rimfire action and it is a two-piece bolt with the front half staying in the raceways and the small lugs basically at the rear of the loading port like the 40X. You do not have the big Mauser looking claw extractor and that might be a good thing. Maybe there isn't as much milled away on the right side. I'm not sure on barrel threads, the centerfires use the same 1" thread that a Winchester M70 uses. My experience with the M77s are they are a pain to bed. Havn't really tore into 77/44 but I guess there is a bunch in Indiana.
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