sabotless Success! Now with pics (below)

[sr71]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

To say that I'm happy is an understatement. Finally got to take my Remmy out to the 100 yard range to dial her in. I had loads for 40 caliber 195 grain Barne's/45sabot, 250 gr Parker and 275 Parkers sabotless. I couldn't get the 195 saboted loads to shoot well at all, but the sabotelss Parkers without a doubt shot REALLY well.
I did NOT have to size any of the Parkers as both the 275 and 250s both went down the bore without any modification. The 275s are a weeee bit bigger in diameter than the 250s and were pretty stiff going down the tube. The 250s went down tight but were smoother. I'm thinking of bumping down the 275s by a couple of tenths and they should be as smooth as the 250s. I was thinking of lapping my barrel, but with my tube shooting this good I think I'll pass
All I can say, is my stick loves Parkers! Pics coming soon.

[sagittarius]

Congratulations, sr71.

Hope my Pac-Nor shoots as well when I get a chance to shoot it.
It's a great feeling to have a rifle that shoots good.
Sounds like yours is !

[smokeeter]

congrats, what load did you use with the parkers and did you chronograph them.

[sr71]

Smokeeter,

I had two different loads each for the 275/250 Parkers. The first load for the 275 consisted of 56 grains H4198 which shot pretty good. The load that really shined for the 275 was 63 grains of H322. Now the 250 grain Parker shot better with 59 grains H4198 than the 65 grains of H322. Go figure..

Sorry, I did not set up the chrony yet. I do however plan on shooting over the chrony along with some 200/300 yard targets this up and coming weekend. I will give some velocities then. This past weekend, I was mainly concerned with getting shots on paper. I definitely accomplished this!

[Harley]

sr71, this thread is a real teaser. Sounds like you're on to something with your rifle, but we'd all like to know the MV and group sizes. I'd particularly like to know your between-shot swabbing routine, if any. I've long thought that the non-knurled bullets would have a tough time going down as the fouling increased. What did you observe?

Harley

[younghunter86]

sr71-

Thanks for the report. I'm hoping to start out with the saboted .40 loads in my Pac-Nor when it arrives. As temps rise this summer then hopefully experiment with sabotless. Hopefully I'll have similar success.

[sr71]

Harley,

I hope to get pics of my targets loaded tonight when i get home pending the Verizon boys replacing my high speed Internet line today as its not working. I promise to have velocities by the end of this coming weekend.

With regards to swabbing/bullet fit, I started with a fresh clean barrel shooting the 275s. The first 275 gr bullet went down tight but fairly smooth. The rest were a bit rough to push down the bore, but I managed. Swabbing between rounds did not help. They were still rough/tight. They shot really good though. 1moa or less at a hundred. ;D The second day consisted in trying out the 250s. I decided before I headed to the range that I would measure these to see how they compared to the 275s. They were a bit smaller in diameter. I thought to myself, hmm should be good fit and I was right. I shot one fouling shot and then proceeded to load and shoot. Each 250 went down the barrel nicely! They were tight but really smooth. I did not swab in between shots either. 1moa or less as well with these bullets. ;D

Younghunter,
I wish you luck in your adventures. These MLs sure are addicting. I haven't had this much fun in years. For some reason I can not get the saboted .40 rounds to shoot very well yet. I had high hopes for these considering Dave D's Remmy shoots lights out with the 195 Barnes. I do not think I giving the tube enough time to cool down between shots or I haven't found the magic equation

[Harley]

Thanks, sr71, for the reply. That's more or less what I would have predicted in difficulty seating the 275's, except I'd think you would have reached a point after which you couldn't stuff them down. How many total rounds of the 275 did you fire? What was the swabbing routine for them?

You may decide (as I did) that you are doing so well so easily with sabotless that you won't go the extra mile in developing the saboted loads. Let us know.

Harley

[bigmoose]

You might want to try running the Parkers thru a .450, which will make them round. IMO the tighter the fit the better it will shoot.
I have posted a number of one hole groups with the 300gr. Parkers. They are deadly accurate

[bigmoose]

[smokeeter]

one other question, any kind of wad between the bullet and powder or just a naked bullet?

[rangeball]

I thought one of the big advantages to sabotless was no waiting between shots for cool down?

[bigmoose]

rangeball,

Thats it....load and shoot...as fast as you can. great advantage in South Florida

[dave d.]

:)sr,congrats on your great results with the parkers.i'm sorry to hear about the 195's what load and sabot were you using?can't wait for the pics...

[rangeball]

Ok, I figured out sr was talking about saboted when he referred to waiting longer...

Never mind

[sr71]

Ok,

Here are some pics. First pic is the 275 grain Parkers with 4198. Excuse the fliers, I battling some flinching



Second pic is the last three 275 Parkers I had left. These were shot using H322.



The following day consisted of shooting the 250s. First pic is with H322



As you can see most shots are consistantly to the right, thus some scope correction is needed.

Second pic shows the 250s shot with H4198. I fired one shot do confirm that the grouping was still right of POA then made some scope corrections. Not sure what I did on shot number 5

[rexxer]

Nice start nrs1!!!

[fowlplay]

I can see why you said "happy is an understatement." Very nice shooting for the first time.
Steve

[sr71]

Thanks rexxer.

Harley,
I'm probably with you on shooting sabotless. If I can tighten these groups a bit more I may just stick with sabotless! ;D

bigmoose,
I did run them thru the .450 lee sizing die. The 275s needed a little push to go thru the die, but the 250s practically dropped straight thru.

Dave d,
My saboted load consisted of a 195 grain red hot with a brown high pressure sabot using 62-63 grains of 4198. No wad..

I did not use wads in any loads. Anybody think the wads will help?

[edge]

Very nice, thanks for the pictures

edge.

[smokeeter]

Mar 17, 2009 8:36:05 GMT -5 sr71 said:

I did not use wads in any loads. Anybody think the wads will help?

Some guys swear by them, some swear at them, whatever works for you.

[sr71]

Thanks for all the kind words fellas!
I may try some wads this weekend and see if I get any tighter groups.

v/r
SR

[dave d.]

:)sr ditch the brown sabots and try the light blue harvestors and i know you have better results with the 195's.very nice sabotless shooting keep em coming...

[sr71]

Dave,
I do have some blue sabots, but I think they are of the crushed rib variety. Is that what you use?

[dave d.]

:)sr no the regular ones work the best in my gun.

[Richard]

Good shootin' Sr71!!!
Richard

[sr71]

Thanks Richard. I appreciate all the kind words. There really is a great bunch of folks on this board! Looks like I will be getting the wallet out again after reading DD's post.. Thanks Dave d, I will get some of those other blue sabots, try them out and report. ;D

[Dave W]

Great start, look forward to seeing what kind of velocity you are getting and the long range groups.