building a savage model 10 cf conversion?

[fordwrench]

guys im looking for a little help. newbie to smokeless muzzleloading and looking for a little help. have a friend that he has done a few rem 700 cf conversions and has had good results. he suggested getting a savage style plug from pa machine but also mentioned the rem plug? he stated the savage plug put the charge ahead or the barrel lug? who plug should i use? looking for excellent accuracy here and was told kreiger douglass xx or shilen. parker 275gr in a 45 cal 20-22 twist? he did mention some inherent problems of the .45cases gas cutting the nipple in his bp if the cases were not just right. also what is the safest and correct way to setup the headspace to solve this? will be doing all machine work at our shop. prior experience limited to all centerfire work and chambering. also the depth of the casehead on a cf savage centerfire rifle is .125 assuming .005 for bolt to barrel clearance. would this measurement remain the same when setting bp depth? please all comments welcome. im lacking proper knowledge here!

[Deleted]

This would be the first time that a remington plug has been mentioned as a possible for smokeless ml. That being the case,
other options should be explored thoroughly.
As far as Barrels, most here have pacnor ,they shoot well and
the company has great customer service. Also, they have all the dimensions worked out and proven. The DDspecial from Pacnor has a 1in22"twist .
Kreiger makes a great barrel, but wait time for production is longgggg......
Brux is starting to make some sml barrels, some are waiting to see how well they shoot .
Good luck on your build, your other questions should be answered in detail by others that did the centerfire conversion.

[fordwrench]

i have been searching the last week or so and seem to have got the gist of the task at hand. my concern is over the bp design and setup. which plug would be best suited to my application? Savage style? rem style? pac nor and their setup? my concern is in getting the depth where the ignition point isnt gonna jepordize my safety. more directly whose plug to use on the savage cf build and and which plug may be the safest to use concerning this issue?

[Deleted]

Pm Dave D and ask but you should need a PA Machine plug. the headspace is simple with the barrel nut. I think the issue is consistent web thickness on the cut off cases but if you have machining access it shouldnt be a problem.
Dave is the man to ask and he can hook you up with Pete @ PA Machine....Bill

[dave d.]

:)pm sent.

[mountainam]

Fordwrench........The Remington plug that your friend MAY be refering to could be the PR bullet style breechplug. It uses a .470" cut off case with no internal nipple IIRC. Since you are using a Savage action, you should probably use a Savage style BP. There is a consensus that the BP should extend beyond the barrel nut for safety. It's difficult for me to get my brain wrapped around that concept especially when using a CF action. A .338 mag casing in the Savage doesn't extend beyond the barrel nut and there is NO breechplug when it's pushing against the locking lugs with 32TONS of pressure. DaveD. will set you straight so you don't end up re-inventing the wheel so to speak. You may want to contact Cecil Epp of PR Bullet to get his theory on CF to ML conversions, but I don't think they do Savage actions to the best of my knowledge. Learn all you can before you leap into a build. Pick the design that will best suit YOUR needs. Good Luck with your build!

[wk4036]

PM sent

[Jon]

Pete also made a savage style plug for the ml1 that took a brass which gave you the length of the savage and the nipple like the remington. If I'm not mistaken someone on the board is using one in a nice high powered pistol.
Jon

[dannoboone]

Fordwrench, if you have access to a lathe in which you can dead
center the bore of a barrel at both ends, I highly recommend
getting Richard Franklin's DVD's "Muzzleloaders" (How to build
your own muzzle loader) found on this page:

richardscustomrifles.com/forsale6.htm

The DVD below that one would also be a must for me (IF I had
access to the equipment), "Metal Working for a Rifle Smith".

You probably don't need the info on making your own gunstock,
but the info for making the rest of the muzzle loader is priceless.

Because of the threading and barrel nut on a barrel made for
a Savage, you can be off by a "few" thousandths as long as you
do not recess the breech plug too deep for the bolt head to
engage, no matter which plug you end up using.

[Jon]

Dannoboone, I agree with you that is a great dvd and extremely well done. He put a lot of thought in what he was doing. I never had the advantage of a 4 jaw chuck on both ends I found it easier to make a bushing or spacer or what ever you more educated people call them but Before c+c and even NC that is the way it was done Actually I enjoyed that time then you were a machinist, now your either a loader and deburer or or you are a programmer. Not that I faulting any of the above I just used to enjoy the challenge.

[fordwrench]

thanks for all the help guys! talked to dave d over the phone this weekend, very helpful and great advise! mountainam, ive talked with you at Denny sports before. i ve been meaning to give you a call on this also. after talking with dave about bp designs and such i have alot better understanding of what has to happen. i do want to ask however does anybody have the o.a.l. measurement pete's rem and savage plugs. from there i will figure the headspace and get the plug forward enough for safety. any consensous on barrel length vs. velocity? building this for a walking spot and stalk type gun so weight is somewhat of an issue too. anyone ever try a e.r. shaw blank? looking for moa or slightly better out to 250yds . trying to find a barrel in stock to get things moving here..