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Post by rbinar on Mar 9, 2009 21:43:35 GMT -5
 Recently I mentioned the possibility of custom size bore for sabot-less shooting. Recently a new shipment of Pac-Nor's came in the mail and from that it was reported how well the .408 barrels took to the 40 caliber bullet. In that shipment there were also 45 caliber barrels. The time came for one to go to work and the bore in this caliber was a pleasant surprise as well.  The image shows the Barnes TMZ bullet in the muzzle and a 275 grain Parker on the side. The Barnes is near a perfect fit with NO sizing at all. The Parker is slightly loose. I can almost use the barrel as a blow gun with one in the pipe. However with just a slight knurling it's a perfect fit. These barrels seem to be just what I wanted, a barrel that will take more than one type of bullet without sizing. The 300 grain SST was tried as well. It will start in the barrel but is too tight. It needs the slightest of sizing and it will work as well.
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Post by Chris Champion on Mar 9, 2009 21:58:52 GMT -5
RB,
Did you custom order these barrels to a specific bore size or was it just "luck of the draw?" If it was a custom size is it available to the masses?
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Post by Harley on Mar 9, 2009 22:31:11 GMT -5
RB, even in this new barrel I'm betting the "near perfect" TMZ won't group as well as the knurled Parker. I hope you'll report on the comparison between them.
Harley
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Post by youp50 on Mar 10, 2009 2:12:48 GMT -5
I am forever amased at the things the ML 10 will do well.
The Barnes bullet is one of them. Most find that properly reloaded cartridges using the Barnes X,TSX, or MRX show best accuracy if given an almost Roy Weatherby like start before they engage the rifling. Yet we can have them lightly engraved laying in the rifling and get decent accuracy.
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Post by rbinar on Mar 10, 2009 3:47:27 GMT -5
RB, Did you custom order these barrels to a specific bore size or was it just "luck of the draw?" If it was a custom size is it available to the masses? Chris in this case it's half luck and half plan. I discussed the barrels with Pac-Nor but never came up with an exact order. We decided on the standard tolerance barrel which is .450 land to land with - 0 + .001 tolerance. I mentioned however I would prefer the finish to be more toward the upper end of tolerance than the lower and got that. |
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Post by rbinar on Mar 10, 2009 4:10:16 GMT -5
RB, even in this new barrel I'm betting the "near perfect" TMZ won't group as well as the knurled Parker. I hope you'll report on the comparison between them. Harley I've had great success with the 275 Parker at present there are over 35 shooters in 22 states shooting that bullet sabot-less from 10ML's I made or helped provide loads. Most report excellent accuracy, it's tough to beat for a deer bullet. However don't sell the TMZ short. The following are three targets I shot with Martin Katz' rifle while I had it in development.    These targets were shot with a light weight bag (no lead sled) and less than perfect rear rest as well. However I think they represent normal 100 yard accuracy with the 290 grain TMZ.  The above image needs a disclaimer because it was not in the place I thought it would be in the photo library. But it is thought to be a 5 shot group I shot with the same bullet at 200 yards. I'm sure these groups won't win any records but it's not bad for a 290 grain monolith good for any animal in North America. |
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Post by bigmoose on Mar 10, 2009 9:27:55 GMT -5
Gents,
I have shoot groups with my RB Special, 3 bullets in one hole, that with 290gr. It is the best combo, of all the bullets I tested for accurcy and penetration
I know I have posted some of the groups here. I consider any group, over an inch to be poor, Remember from the bench it the rifle that gets the credit, not the shooter.
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Post by Harley on Mar 10, 2009 9:40:06 GMT -5
RB, my point wasn't that the Parker is superior to the TMZ; I was emphasizing my belief that knurling provides the ultimate bullet-to-barrel fit.
Harley
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Post by bigmoose on Mar 10, 2009 12:59:46 GMT -5
Harley,
The Parkers are very accurate, and I'm sure they are deadly on Deer sized animals, However if you are hunting large boned animals the TMZ is much better IMO, and that may be worthless, except to me.
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Post by bigmoose on Mar 10, 2009 13:06:28 GMT -5
 This is 3 shoot group with Parker 300 gr., run thru .450 Lee die for rounding, note resizing |
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Post by Harley on Mar 10, 2009 14:20:48 GMT -5
Bigmoose, I guess I'm not doing a good job explaining myself. This is NOT about the difference between Parker and TMZ. It's about my belief that a "knurled fit" beats a "natural fit".
Harley
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Post by bigmoose on Mar 10, 2009 15:08:20 GMT -5
Harely,
I understand what your saying, I am pointing out the Parkers are not KNURLED, shoot full size.
TMZ resized and knurled, not much difference in the groups. I'm happy with either one, some folks might want to tighten up the groups just one .450 hole....
Personally, TMZ, with nothing but load and shoot, would be perfection.
My wish list has only one other load, a .458 X bullet, load and shoot. Sabotless of couse.
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Post by Harley on Mar 10, 2009 15:43:00 GMT -5
I got that, Bigmoose. Thanks.
Harley
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2009 18:08:27 GMT -5
RB, I hope my barrel was done at the same time as yours,I can only hope tis the same dia....Bill
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Post by younghunter86 on Mar 11, 2009 10:29:16 GMT -5
RB, I hope my barrel was done at the same time as yours,I can only hope tis the same dia....Bill I'm hoping the same, but in reality I probably got one of the smaller ones, that were pulled out of rb's shipment.  Oh well, I just wish it would get here. |
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Recently I mentioned the possibility of custom size bore for sabot-less shooting. Recently a new shipment of Pac-Nor's came in the mail and from that it was reported how well the .408 barrels took to the 40 caliber bullet.
Oh well, I just wish it would get here.