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Post by trouthunterdj on Sept 2, 2011 10:58:32 GMT -5
Hello all,
I want to start off by appologizing for this thread. I am sure this information is covered in other threads but I m having a tough time pulling it all together.
I just purchased a ML-II and am looking for information on getting up and running.
I ordered some Barnes T-EZ bullets 290gr and MMP HPH12's. Is this a good place to start?
Which powder would be the best choice to start shooting these bullets?
Are there any accessories I need? (different rod, breachplugs, ect)
Does anyone use Talley Lightweights on their ML-II's? I have used these on most of my high powers.
Thanks for the help,
ddj
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Post by lwh723 on Sept 2, 2011 11:11:44 GMT -5
In my opinion, Barnes T-EZ probably aren't the best place to start. They may be ok, but on my next gun I'll start with XTP's to establish that it can shoot before I move onto Barnes bullets. And I would use Harvester sabots instead of MMP's.
There aren't any accessories that you "need" other than what comes with the gun. That being said, if you spend some time on here you'll find plenty of stuff that you "have" to have.
Welcome aboard....
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Post by onecardchuck on Sept 2, 2011 11:25:25 GMT -5
Welcome to the board,
First of all give the bore a good cleaning.
With the T-EZ being .451 depending on the bore dimensions of your gun you may need a thicker sabot like the Harvester Red Crush Rib. Since you have already ordered the MMP HPH12 you can do a test when you get them. Pull out the breach plug and load a sabot/bullet and push it down the bore. You are looking for a decent amount of resistance like 40 to 60 pounds of resistance. This will tell you if you have a good or bad seal in the bore and will stop you from having ignition problems. Remember with smokeless tight is right for good ignition and accuracy.
Since you are new to all this I would stay away from duplex loads until you get some time under your belt experimenting with you new setup and single powders. Many on this board have had good success with the heavy bullets using a slower powder like N120 or H4198 if you look in the load database you will get some good ideas of loads you would like to try and always start lower and work your way up slowly.
I will give you the short list on the Pandora's box you opened when asking for accessory input.
Things I like are a solid ram rod, spin jag loader and bullet starter, and Fed 209A or CCI Mag primers(These are the two hottest primers). Shooting a heavy bullet and possibly a heavy load I would get solid steel rings and bases.
Hope this helps get you going in the right direction,
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Post by trouthunterdj on Sept 2, 2011 16:04:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the info guys.
I thought I would use the Barnes for my upcoming Iowa deer season. Most of the loads I have seen used 5744 or N120.
Is there an advantage to detachable rings for cleaning? I was planning on using fixed rings and bases.
Thanks again,
ddj
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Post by zakjak221 on Sept 2, 2011 16:20:47 GMT -5
Truth,
IMO I would start with 44-45 gr's AA5744/short mmp sabots/300 gr XTP's--NOT mags. Another bullet choice would be the Rem. 300 gr or Horn. 4500-300 gr with Harv. BCR sabots.
The 5744 powder is reliable/proven and with one of the above bullet combo's will work well on them corn fed whitetails ya'all got.
I have the qucik release scope rings on two of my guns and like them.
Good luck, ask questions,practice & repeat! ;D
Mark
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Post by ET on Sept 2, 2011 16:41:15 GMT -5
Is there an advantage to detachable rings for cleaning? I was planning on using fixed rings and bases. Thanks again, ddj The only 2-real advantages of detachable rings is as follows. 1) Quick access to check base mounts screws for tightness. 2) With a second set of detachable rings and scope is a quick change out if scope on ML is damaged or goes south when unexpected. I have setup a backup scope and take it with me every hunting season when I hunt out of town. Ed |
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Post by Richard on Sept 2, 2011 17:14:01 GMT -5
Trout..........if you don't have a set, I would definitely invest in either a dial or digital caliper. ($20 to $30 ones will suffice) Once you have found a combination (bullet/sabot) that loads firmly (40 or so pounds of force) (this can be done with the butt of your rifle on a bathroom scale), measure the diameter across the bullet/sabot. I think you will find this to be generally, around .507" to .508". Now, every bullet/sabot that you try should measure about the same. This does not matter whether your are using a .451, .452, .457 or .458" bullet. It is going to be the the particular sabot you use with those bullets that will create the diameter. Again, generally speaking your ..457 (Remington 300 gr) or Hornady 300 gr. #4500 or the Barnes Original will want either the Harvester Black Crush Rib or the Orange MMP sabot (the orange was always too loose for my rifle). With the .451 or .452 bullets you will want the Harvester Red Crush Ribs or short black MMP's. The difference lies in the thickness of the petals. If you are not using two hands to seat the load, it is probably too loose. Now IF....................you should get a mis-fire (but the primer did go off?) Make sure you re-seat the bullet as this action will generally push the bullet half way down the bore. A subsequent firing of a second primer "MIGHT" cause ignition and a possible bulged barrel.
Richard
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Post by trouthunterdj on Sept 2, 2011 17:32:24 GMT -5
Wow guys! Thanks for all the help. This is a great site. I tend to get into long shooting situations so I was leaning away from pistol bullets such as xp's. I used XP bullets in my first Knight rifle.
How do the Barnes originals work on game? I want to limit the number of bullets I buy.
Do standard savage bases fit the ML-II?
Thanks all,
ddj
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Post by dannoboone on Sept 2, 2011 18:41:19 GMT -5
"Do standard savage bases fit the ML-II?" Yes, any of the bases
for the round top Savage receivers will fit.
One other point: If your T-EZ bullets do not fit tight in the bore
with any of your sabots (since they are .451, and some are less
than that), try knurling them between two files until they measure
.452, .252+. I knurl most of my bullets to also insure they will not
"drill" the sabot with heavier loads.
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Post by trouthunterdj on Sept 2, 2011 22:26:47 GMT -5
Dannoboone - how do you knurl a bullet? Sorry for my lack of knowledge.
Is there a spritzer type bullet that seems to fit and shoot best in most ML-II's?
ddj
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Post by Dave W on Sept 3, 2011 3:37:16 GMT -5
RB did this knurling video for sabotless application but it works for saboted shooting also. Some of us use the same method but use two files and roll the bullet between the files. The .458 300gr Barnes Original has a strong following here. www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=635838IMO and experiences, jacketed bullets are more accurate in the .50, especially at 200yds. The .458 300gr Rem or .458 325gr FTX would be a better starting point in my opinion and easier on the wallet than a all copper. Another vote for knurling the all copper bullet if you proceed with them. |
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Post by mountainam on Sept 3, 2011 6:49:30 GMT -5
I agree with Dave W, .458" Rem 300HP's or .458" Hornady 325gr FTX for the shooting parameters that you laid out. 3 for $1 and 2 for $1 respectively.
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Post by jray57 on Sept 3, 2011 7:40:31 GMT -5
And whatever you do always allow time between shots for the barrel to come to ambient temperature. When I got my mlII I was like you and too close to opening day to really tweak a load. I just loaded and shot- and never could get consistent results. Take your time and/or get a cool rod and listen to these guys. They can shorten the learning curve for you. I wish I had!
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Post by 10ga on Sept 4, 2011 15:14:08 GMT -5
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Post by sniperjohn on Sept 4, 2011 22:32:00 GMT -5
Great thread and perfect timing for me as well.
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Post by morgan1109 on Sept 7, 2011 9:43:12 GMT -5
Fellow Iowa hunter here. Here is what I would say you need:
1. Spinjag (spinjag.com)
2. Bullet starter (I bought mine as a combo on the spinjag site)
3. Cooling rod (rossman on this site)
The cooling rod helps you practice in the summer months, so you can concentrate on hunting in the fall/winter. Your wait time between shots shrinks from 15 minutes plus to under 5. The spinjag head and bullet starter helped me as a “new to muzzle loading” hunter seat the bullet properly. At least I believe it did, he he. The spinjag works with many different bullets, so you don’t have to worry about switching it out. I find the spinjag bullet starter to be much easier to use than the one that came with the ML2. I also think it makes it harder for a new guy to mess up.
Here are some things you may want:
1. A powerful primer (I use CCI-M).
2. A reliable sabot that seals well (I use harvester)
3. A .458 diameter bullet (I use BO 300 gr)
4. A good cold shooting powder ( I use AA5744)
We have cold winters here so a powerful primer will help you ensure proper ignition on this -15 degree mornings we get in January. Same reason on the powder. A good double based powder is probably your best bet. My groups really tightened up when I switched to the .458 bullets. From reading the board that is a very common experience. I wish I had just started out with .458’s because I’ve got a bunch of .452’s gathering dust. I started out with MMP’s until someone on this site sent me some harvesters to try. With the MMP’s, about every 6th shot I would get a flier. Not far mind you, but a good 2 inches out from the rest of the grouping. I figured it was just something I was doing wrong with the loading procedure (I was new). I was tweaking the sabot or something. When I switched over to the harvesters my groups finally started coming in under the 1.5 inches I was looking for (1.25 inches if I don’t get in the way). It took about a month of regular shooting before I realized I wasn’t getting the fliers anymore. The harvester sabots fixed it somehow. They seem a little tougher so maybe I wasn’t tweaking the sabot? Maybe I was getting a better seal with them? Who knows. All I know is I found a combo that shoots in very cold weather, ignites every time, and is far more accurate than I need it to be.
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Post by boarhog on Sept 7, 2011 13:06:36 GMT -5
The 300 grain Barnes Original works great on deer and hogs!
Boarhog
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Post by trouthunterdj on Sept 7, 2011 13:27:45 GMT -5
Thanks again guys!!! I really appreciate all the help. I am learning so much.
Can anyone give me a link to the correct harvester sabots? I am having a hard time with which black ones to order.
Maybe a link to the Hornady 325's would help also.
ddj
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Post by jray57 on Sept 8, 2011 4:56:11 GMT -5
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Post by trouthunterdj on Sept 8, 2011 9:46:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the help guys!
This is a great site with better people!
ddj
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