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Post by rangeball on Aug 2, 2011 15:50:03 GMT -5
Have my .45 barrel degreased, hanging ready for paint tomorrow. Hotter than blazes here, so figured if I can slip out to shoot anytime soon I better concentrate on sabotless to start. Would love to get the barnes 250gr TEZ to shoot. They seem to fit my bore well so looks like a good place to start. Looking through the load database it looks like 57gr of H4198 gets about 2400 fps. I'd be happy with that, and I have that powder on hand. I didn't see any loads for N110 in the .45 sabotless for this weight class bullet, but swear I've read it discussed here. Since it is the other powder I have on hand, and since it's faster, I'm wondering with the copper barnes if the quicker kick in the pants may be beneficial? If anyone has experience with either of these powders in this application, especially with this bullet, I'd appreciate your input, good or bad  |
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Post by ratsnakeboogy on Aug 2, 2011 18:08:25 GMT -5
I don't have the answer to your question and I don't want to hijack your thread but I would love to know the procedures and products you use to paint your barrels.
Thanks,
Don
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Post by Dave W on Aug 2, 2011 18:43:52 GMT -5
dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=smokeless&action=display&thread=7584When I timed the 250 FTX with 42gr N110, 2450fps IIRC. 43 or 44gr(can't recall) bulges primers in my SMI plug and accuracy got worse. THIS WAS AT 35*, not the weather we are dealing with now. I would definitely start lower in hot temps. 42gr or so was the best accuracy. My die sizes the all coppers too small, possibly why velocity has always been lower than jacketed bullets. 59-61gr H4198 pushes a jacketed bullet 2500+, the TEZ's and Spitfires were always slower and accuracy was poor. Smokeeter had problems with the all coppers until he put a concave on the base. Search Rexxer's old posts. He gets great accuracy with the 275 XPB and a ?/2015 duplex. Not sure about the booster but I think it is the same load Harley uses with the 275 BE.
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Post by rangeball on Aug 3, 2011 9:10:53 GMT -5
Don, I'm using this stuff- www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1117/Product/ALUMA_HYDE_reg__IIAl recommended it to me, says it's tough as really tough nails Thanks Dave. Actually 23-400 fps would be plenty. I'll give them a try. How many grains lower would you load in this hot weather and expect the same performance as 42gr when it's cold? |
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Post by Dave W on Aug 3, 2011 15:20:57 GMT -5
I wish I could give you some actual warm weather data Rball but I was not happy with the velocity and never pursued the combo any further.
H4198 loses /gains approximately 1fps per degree with several bullets. Not sure how N110 would compare for certain.
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Post by rangeball on Aug 3, 2011 16:22:25 GMT -5
No problem, thanks.
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Post by bigmoose on Aug 3, 2011 17:10:06 GMT -5
My principal .45 cal. sabotless load [RB's load] is 53grs of H4198, wonderwad and 290gr. Barnes TMZ flat based. It is a super accurate load, I have shot 4 shot one hole groups with it, {also so have a bunch of holed dimes}, As a bonus it kill's Moose.
Highly recommended, Also soft shooting, thats important when your an old, old man.
I run the bullet thru a Lee .449 die and knurl to .450.5
Best Wishes,
Marty
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Post by Chris Champion on Aug 3, 2011 21:34:33 GMT -5
Range...I tried to get the 250 TEZ to shoot sabotless in my 45 when I first got it. That was my main reason for buying my barrel off RB was he had a batch of barrels that were on the high end of Pacnors spec and the TEZ seated without having to be sized. In fact I put a light knurl on the bullets. It became a PITA in my mind to swab and clean between every shot so I probably gave up sooner than I should have. I never got the right cleaning/sizing routine down. I shot these puppies with straight H4198 & stout N110/H332 duplexes from 2400 fps up to about 2700 fps and couldn't get them to shoot. I've thought of revisiting them but just can't get past the simplicity of a 195g Barnes in a Harvester blue sabot.
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Post by jray57 on Aug 4, 2011 7:01:21 GMT -5
I have no experience with the Barnes but I have shot the 250 XTP with up to 59 gr H4198 for approx 2500 fps out of a 26" barrel. I'm not sure how to post a link but I did a post "first shots sabotless" where I shot the 250 XTP with 56 gr 4198 for some pretty good accuracy at about 2400 fps. I did try the same loads with the 250 FTX and the rounds that did hit the backer did so sideways  dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=smokeless&thread=8260&page=1the link did show up! |
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Post by rangeball on Aug 4, 2011 8:44:05 GMT -5
Thanks fellas. Swab and clean between shots? Doesn't sound like something I want to get involved with |
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Post by Dave W on Aug 4, 2011 18:44:37 GMT -5
Thanks fellas. Swab and clean between shots? Doesn't sound like something I want to get involved with My advice, don't clean between shots, shoot dirty. I find more copper wash on my cleaning patches when I patch or swab between shots than when I shoot dirty. Cleaning between shots gives a smoother seating resistance but the resistance grows as the barrel fouls to a greater extent than when shot dirty. IMO Pretty sure I have shot in excess of 50 shots with no stuck bullets that I hear others mention. |
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Post by rangeball on Aug 5, 2011 9:40:46 GMT -5
I can't remember the last time I cleaned my .50 barrel. Of course N110 shoots very clean, so maybe that's the reason, but saboted and sabotless (thor) loads are no problem and continue to be very accurate.
N110 being so clean is one of the reasons I am interested in it in the .45.
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Post by jray57 on Aug 5, 2011 13:18:57 GMT -5
I'm not sure if it's as clean as N110 but I got N120 to shoot real good with the 225 FTX.
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Post by rangeball on Aug 5, 2011 13:23:06 GMT -5
I think it is just real hard to find around here.
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Post by rangeball on Aug 5, 2011 15:18:20 GMT -5
My principal .45 cal. sabotless load [RB's load] is 53grs of H4198, wonderwad and 290gr. Barnes TMZ flat based. It is a super accurate load, I have shot 4 shot one hole groups with it, {also so have a bunch of holed dimes}, As a bonus it kill's Moose. Highly recommended, Also soft shooting, thats important when your an old, old man. I run the bullet thru a Lee .449 die and knurl to .450.5 Best Wishes, Marty Marty, what's your loading pressure like? Do you have any idea of the land dimension of your bore? Will an un-sized barnes go down it? |
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Post by Dave W on Aug 5, 2011 17:06:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure if it's as clean as N110 but I got N120 to shoot real good with the 225 FTX. Details, targets! |
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Post by jray57 on Aug 5, 2011 18:16:30 GMT -5
Didn't save the paper targets but 63 to 63.5 gr N120 shot in the mid 2700's with the 225 FTX. Consistently sub moa from the 50's to the low 90's. The 225 FTX along with the 250 XTP have been the best shooting bullets I have used so far (including 275 Parkers). The 300 XTP appears to hold some promise as well. Best load with the 250 XTP has been your load of 11/59 N110/H322 which shoots in the low 2700's and is also consistently sub moa. Both these targets were shot with the 225 FTX. The first at 130 yards quartering to  complete passthru the second also with the 225 and 63gr N120 at just under 100 yds "head on"  then "head off". I know I'll probably catch some flak but I will probably have to try the 225 FTX on something a little larger this fall  |
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