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Post by edge on Jul 27, 2011 13:28:20 GMT -5
After testing the hardness of the new 40 caliber bullets I decided to try a test.
I made five 360 alloy brass bullets with near identical dimensions of a 200 grain 40 cal. XTP
In brass these weigh 165 grains but with a hardness of 53 on the 15N scale whereas a Spit-Fire is around 10.
If obturation is needed then these should not work and should drill the sabot with a heavy load. If they shoot near the XTP then the hardness should not be a problem with the new spitzer bullets.
On a side note I will also test some polycarbonate sabots, some new PET ( Polyethylene Terephthalate ) sabots and some PET-G (Polyethylene Terephthalate Glycol ) sabots as replacements for the PVC-II corrosive sabots.
edge.
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Post by rangeball on Jul 27, 2011 13:30:02 GMT -5
Outstanding  |
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Post by Jon on Jul 27, 2011 13:49:11 GMT -5
Edge keep up the great work
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 21:12:41 GMT -5
That should show if hardness is a factor or not,awesome, Edge.
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Post by rossman40 on Jul 28, 2011 12:30:08 GMT -5
Could you cut a couple of simple wadcutters in the brass or copper in the weight range of 225gr? The 165gr may be light enough not to drill is the reason I bring it up. It would also be more close to the weight in the new bullet experiment.
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Post by edge on Jul 29, 2011 10:45:24 GMT -5
Too late for this go around.
Since I don't shoot XTP's I did not think that I would be a good tester.
If they end up shooting similar to a copper jacketed bullet then perhaps we can revisit this. Even though they may not drill the sabot due to a lower mass, if they shoot accurately it should dispel the notion about the need to obturate since these bullets will not.
edge.
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Post by edge on Aug 2, 2011 10:22:11 GMT -5
No good, blown sabots even with reduced loads.  edge. |
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Post by rangeball on Aug 2, 2011 10:40:16 GMT -5
Seems hardness is definitely an issue. Doesn't bode well for one of the ideas CEB wants to try.
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Post by edge on Aug 2, 2011 10:46:49 GMT -5
Some have shot the Lehigh bullets but I think they are knurled.
edge.
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Post by rangeball on Aug 2, 2011 11:31:08 GMT -5
Some have shot the Lehigh bullets but I think they are knurled. edge. At time of production, right? Can you "aftermarket" knurl brass like we do with copper bullets? What's the fastest someone has successfully shot a lehigh? |
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Post by rossman40 on Aug 2, 2011 19:14:20 GMT -5
I do not think speed is as much a factor as chamber pressure (of course there is a relation). When we get to the level of smokeless it appears we need the slight amount of obturation to get the extra "squeeze" on the sabot and prevent the drilling. This goes on to prove a lot of small issues of saboted smokeless. Also to prove that shooting a bullet saboted smokeless is a whole lot different ball game then from a centerfire.
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Post by rangeball on Aug 5, 2011 14:58:09 GMT -5
Could you cut a couple of simple wadcutters in ... copper in the weight range of 225gr? Edge, any chance for a round #2 with a copper bullet like rossman mentioned, annealed using Tom Post's method? |
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Post by sw on Aug 5, 2011 18:33:40 GMT -5
I think the main reason that most can get better accuracy with XTP/SST than 195 Barnes is the earlier and more thorough obturation. This is both sabotless and to a greater extent, saboted.
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Post by Chris Champion on Aug 5, 2011 22:40:45 GMT -5
Some have shot the Lehigh bullets but I think they are knurled. edge. At time of production, right? Can you "aftermarket" knurl brass like we do with copper bullets? What's the fastest someone has successfully shot a lehigh? I have yet to see the following three words in the same post... smokeless...lehigh...successful  |
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Post by grouse on Aug 5, 2011 22:57:20 GMT -5
At time of production, right? Can you "aftermarket" knurl brass like we do with copper bullets? What's the fastest someone has successfully shot a lehigh? I have yet to see the following three words in the same post... smokeless...lehigh...successful True but not true. In 45cal smokeless muzzleloaders nobody that i know of has got really good accuracy. But the 50cals have got outstanding accuracy with book loads. I do have another smokeless 45 bullet i'm going to send a couple of you to try once they arrive. We are making a bullet for a 1/20 twist 45. I will also send some of those out once done as well. |
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Post by bigmoose on Aug 6, 2011 16:42:54 GMT -5
No one get good accuracy< Iguess that depends on your definition of good accuracy.
A Barnes 290gr. TMZ resized and knurled to fit your barrel, a wonder wad, 53grs of H4198, is a super accurate load IMHO, I have shot a number of one hole, 3 shot clover leaf, to say nothing, of hitting a number of dime all at 100 years, I'm a simple man but I think that accuracy.
If they could speak, I have some Moose on my wall that just might agree
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Post by bigmoose on Aug 6, 2011 17:28:09 GMT -5
PS
That was Rick's load, he also had great success with it.
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Post by grouse on Aug 6, 2011 21:27:40 GMT -5
What's the fastest someone has successfully shot a lehigh? Me and RB both were shooting the 250grn Lehigh with 65grns of N120 and a short black Harvester sabot in the Savage. 3/4 to 1 1/4 all the time at 100yds. |
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Post by bigmoose on Aug 7, 2011 10:08:31 GMT -5
grouse,
Surely when you were shooting with Rick, you know this was his number one .45 cal. sabotless load, and how accurate it was.
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Post by Chris Champion on Aug 7, 2011 11:02:46 GMT -5
No one get good accuracy< Iguess that depends on your definition of good accuracy. A Barnes 290gr. TMZ resized and knurled to fit your barrel, a wonder wad, 53grs of H4198, is a super accurate load IMHO, I have shot a number of one hole, 3 shot clover leaf, to say nothing, of hitting a number of dime all at 100 years, I'm a simple man but I think that accuracy. If they could speak, I have some Moose on my wall that just might agree Bigmoose...Grouse's reply to my post about no one getting good accuracy with the 45 cal was specific to the Lehigh 185 & 200g sabotted bullets. No one is questioning the type of accuracy we've all gotten with other loads in the 45 cal. |
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Post by bigmoose on Aug 7, 2011 13:26:25 GMT -5
Chris ,
Thanks for the clarification, its not my first or last mistake
I didn't take that any one was questioning the accuarcy of the Barnes 290 TMZ, since it was Brother Rick, that developed it.
If I ever lay claim to a new load, pay no attention to it. since I am banging away to have fun, when I find a load that works, it by chance, zero tech knowledge
Once again Thanks, maybe some day I'll read more carefully.
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