Barrel taper vs. weight vs. speed

[esshup]

I'm sorta confused. (yeah, I know, not unusual )

I called Penny and got the ball rolling for the Pac-Nor barrel for my stainless ML-II. Barrel length and taper is still up in the air. I'm supposed to call her back tomorrow morning to get it nailed down. We're talking about a .45 cal barrel here, shooting saboted bullets. I cannot use a ML less than .44 cal for hunting here in Indiana.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (or just plain misguided).

Standard Savage factory .50 cal Barrel is 3.69 to 3.83 pounds depending on which caculator I use. Is this correct?

Since it's a hunting gun, the only time that it will be heating up is during load development. In those conditions, I can live with taking time to regulate heat. (I can shoot right behind the house)

The DD barrel is 25" long, correct? Any idea on the weight?

Would going to a longer but lighter barrel help with velocity or is the extra length not worth the velocity increase?

Having a long barrel is not a concern. 99% of all my hunting is done from a stand, but I don't want to increase the weight of the gun - I have a 12#+ ML-I and I don't want to duplicate it.

I have a synthetic stock that I'd like to keep on the gun. RB added a 3rd pillar, and I want to keep his legacy alive. I realize that I might have to change the bedding a bit, but I really don't want to have to hog out the stock for a bigger barrel unless absolutely necessary.

So, it boils down to this:
Is going to a longer barrel worth the velocity increase?

If the above answer is yes, then:
What taper should it be to keep the weight the same as the factory .50 cal barrel, and how long should the barrel be?

[dave d.]

Scott if money is not a option I would go 25" fluted which will give you a kool look and alittle less weight. If your not against duplex that 25 will get you as high as you want to go. Even with singles you will be up there. Keep it at 25 you will be happy. BTW I would keep the standard taper

[tar12]

Scott,

Muzzleloading firearms must be .44
caliber or larger, loaded with a single bullet
of at least .357 caliber. Saboted bullets are
allowed, provided the bullet is .357 caliber
or larger.

[Richard]

Esshup......................So who is going to see this COOL barrel up in a tree ;D. Not to bust dave d's gonads, but the amount of weight you will save is almost not worth talking about..........and it will cost you around $125 or thereabouts; plus, it will make the barrel LESS stiff (two barrels the exact same dimensions................The non-fluted on will be stiffer than the fluted one- probably not enough to worry about?) ;D One thing with the dave d barrels, at least on my first three...........You will get a section of 1.062" for about five inches before the taper begins. A Savage barrel already starts tapering from right at the back of the barrel nut (1.035) to the muzzle. You can never rechamber/thread a Savage barrel as there is no meat left to cut a thread. With the PN, you can bulge it (been there/done that), cut three inches off and still re-thread it! If you don't want that, you better tell Penny to start the taper right at the end of the thread. Custom and benchrest barrels typically have this straight amount to allow for rechambering.
Richard

[Deleted]

Scott,
I would stick with a standard barrel and flute it if you like the sexy look ( will probably shave 4-5 oz), as Rich said not enough to worry about. the savage is going to be heavy no matter what, but then again so is a custom 700. my three builds all between 11-12 lbs scoped

[rossman40]

A #7 taper with flutes comes in about the same weight as the factory barrel

[esshup]

Thanks guys! 25" it is, and I saw that the #7 taper was close to the factory weight, that confirms my suspicions.

RIchard, I also heard that depending on when the fluting process is performed, and what type of rifling it is, all has an effect on the accuracy of the rifling. But, with the inherent accuracy variables that the sabot throws in the mix, will any real world accuracy differences be measurable?

Dave, I'm not opposed to duplexing. I duplexed for the .458" 300 Gr Barnes "X" bullet on a hog hunt back when it was VERY controversial. Randy W. and others were on the hunt and I just didn't say anything about what powders I was using because of all the grief that I would have gotten. Jeez, I just went and looked - that was back in 2005!

[edge]

Fluted is generally stiffer because you start with a heavier contour and then flute it which makes it lighter and stiffer( than the lighter contour)....and COOLER ;D
( Yes, they are more expensiveR too! )

My rifles are tools and look like cr@p but they shoot better than I can so I don't care

edge.

[Deleted]

the fluted pacs shoot well so dont be afraid to spend the extra bucks if you want the extra bling....

[esshup]

Well, I've got to run to where the safe is to measure the shank of the gun. Penny wants to be sure to get the correct size. Even tho I won't be shooting sabotless I am having the cutoff sent with the barrel. I can probably clock the sabots in it, right?

[esshup]

O.K. Penny has all the info now. Shank on the muzzle side of the nut is 1.035". Barrel dia. at muzzle is .835".

Barrel is ordered. ;D

Penny said 14-16 weeks. I'll have a few weeks before season starts to get it dialed in.

I went with a custom taper. Not much more $, and it will help keep the weight where it's at. The taper will start 1" forward of the barrel nut threads. It will taper to .840" at the muzzle. I went with 6 flutes, starting 1" forward of the start of the taper, and stopping 1 1/2" from the muzzle. 25" barrel, stainless, bead blasted. Cutoff to be shipped with the barrel.

The gun currently weighs exactly 10# with 3.5-10 x 50 VX-III scope/mounts, sling, factory ramrod, weight that Dwight added to the synthetic stock and RB's 3rd pillar/bedding job. This is the Stainless ML-II that Dwight was shooting light speed bullets from and had to clean the plastic out of after half a dozen shots. (IIRC)

Yeah, all in all the barrel cost about $100 less than a new gun when you figure in shipping, but I don't have to buy another scope, mounts, etc., and I can always switch back to the .50 barrel. It cost a whole lot less than an Indiana legal CF rifle, and will be able to shoot just as far.

Now I have to order the ramrod and take a look at my powder stash. What should I have on hand for testing? Duplex isn't out of the question.

[Deleted]

H-4198 is hard to beat for a single and is usually very accurate in your barrel..vv n120 is pretty good as well
dont be suprised if the wait time is more like 16-18 weeks

[Richard]

Edge............I hope you noted that I did say: Two barrels of the exact same dimension! I understand what you mean by having the fluted version start out slightly "fatter" and then fluting........and agree, the stiffness would be the same. But, taking an existing barrel and fluting it? You will definitely weaken it. Barrels should be fluted prior to being reamed and rifled.
Probably in ML type accuracy vs. an all out bench rifle, fluting after its rifled might not cause a serious issue . You will find gunsmiths who gladly offer this service to make a buck
Richard