A couple of new powders in the .45.....

[Richard]

Tried a few new things at the range yesterday. One idea did not seem to work out...A couple of new powders might have some hope?
First, I wanted to try using the base of a sabot as the "wad" under a sabot less bullet. I cut the petals off a dozen tan mmp sabots. I thought these might seal the 200 gr. .45 FTX. The FTX were sized a bit on the loose side........They had shot OK with .060" veggie wads but with the petal-less sabots The first shot with 62 gr. of H-4198 simply spit the bullet and sabot about 20ft. from the barrel. A lot of gold color powder was left in the bore. I have a feeling that if the bullet was tighter, it would have ignited. The second attempt, I put 54 gr. of H-4198 under the same combination and really leaned on the ram rod. It went off and recorded a velocity of 1600 fps. The bullet hit at 12:00 about 2" higher than the normal POI. At this point, I put testing on hold and might try it another day
I have always heard not to or you can't use BALL powder in these ML's??? And I know, part of theory is the tiny granules of powder will clog the vent hole. Also, something about the burning rate of the ball powders?? So, I figured that if I shoot a duplex with 4759 or N-110 as the primer, (10 grains fills my recessed breech plug) I should not have the problem. I put together 10 gr. of 4759 along with 60 gr. of H-335 and gave it a try. Due to chronograph alignment problems, I only got one reading but, all shots went off with no problem. Was the group great? No, but still minute of deer ;D It printed pretty much in the center of the target. The 2431 fps is on the low side and possibly this load wants more primer or more main charge? I might play with it in the future/
The second "newby" for me was a duplex with Varget. Knowing it is much slower than 322 I upped the main charge to 70 gr. with 10 gr. of 4759 boosting it. The velocity was not bad, but a bit on the low end: 2610 average but the ES was on the high side: 86 fps. The group was not too bad either? Putting three in 1.2" and 5 in 1.5". Here again, it might need a boost in primer?
The past three weeks I have been shooting a duplex of 10/60....10/61...and 10/62---4759/H-322. The 10/60 seems to have shot the best group at .9" for five. So, I went back to that one yesterday. Last week Edge questioned why I did not shoot the 200 Nosler bullet that shot good at 100 yards.......out at 300? (I had gone to the SST) So, this week I thought I would take his advice (except on recoil lugs ). As you can see from the target, the load definitely wants to shoot! Putting the first three in .3"! Shot #4 is totally unexplained No called flyer, no excuses period. Everything right on the $$$, no wind just totally unexplained?............Shot #5? right back into the group.
So, out to 300.......Shots one, two and three landed in 2.6"---shots 4 & 5 opened it up to 7"? I think at 100 yards, shots 1, 2, 3 & 4 would have formed a decent cluster and shot #5 would mimic the 100 yard group!
Note" This load was shot at 100 yards using the cross hairs and you can see where it printed. At 300 yards, I used the second stadia line and you can see it printed about five inches low.
Using the same load but substituting the 200 SST, the same second stadia line, the load printed around 4" high. Three in 3.8", five in 6" but best four inside the 3.8" group. Again, a similar senario where the group would have been decent at 100 except for the #4 flyer
I feel I am getting the bullets pretty well centered with my new alignment gage but of course, there is still room for error I am really leaning towards bullet imbalance as the reason for flyers but have on proof?
Next week I will shoot this load with the 195 Barnes if they don't blow any sabots.
Richard

[deadon]

Great shooting and thanks for the report, Rusty

[sw]

Thanks Richard. Back in the pre and slightly post 10-ML production dates, TB wanted me to test accuracy and velocity of a # of loads ate various temps. His schedule didn't allow him to shoot as much in the winter as he needed to. So I shot many of this summer derived loads thru the winter. He had 3 criteria for loads: 1) 40-50gs of powder, 2 ) not over 1 1/2", 3- shot groups @ 100 yds consistently, and 3) very little velocity change over wide temp variances(preferably >100'/sec). This was the criteria for "book" loads. The only exception was for 34g of Alliant 2400 since it just shot so well. Also, I still don't know how 5447 made it in: I hated it.
Still the point is, and hard to do in a short time, is the temp sensitivity thing. Lg pistol powders (VV-110 for example) and reduced load powders(4759 for example) do well with temp insensitivity at lower pressures(30-40K psi) but a # of rifle powders( often shot at 50-70K+ pressures) don't seem to do as well at lower pressures. 2015 is quite temp sens at lower pressures but accurate loads can be made AT ANY TEMPS with this powder, for that temp! I think VV-130,133,135, and to a lesser degree Varget, H-322 also can show a fair amt of temp sens.
Richard, I know you are aware of this but am putting this for people with less reloading experience or less familiarity with the unique nature of smokeless MLing principles.
So, in summary, as the slower the powder we use, generally the higher the pressure needed for temp insensitivity. I try to load for mid-hi 40s in my 40 cal. Pressure isn't our enemy. Way too much pressure can be though.

[dannoboone]

Thank you for your continued work and reports. They add a wealth
of info for those of us with little time on our hands.

I have tried H335 in both the .50 and .45 barrels. Was shooting
out of a hay mow with light colored wooden flooring. I could
always see unburned granules of the H335 after firing a few
shots. When pushing a cleaning patch down the barrel between
shots, there was always a few unburned granules that came
out on the patch.

Accuracy was not good in the .50, but the PN45 shot pretty well
at the expense of speed. I never went beyond 10gr N110 for
the booster with 55gr H335. You're no doubt correct that it
needs more booster for a complete burn (and possibly more
speed).

[Richard]

Danno........I already have 15 gr. of boster lined up for the 60 gr. of H-335 and the Varget on Tuesday.
Richard

[jims]

Richard: I am interested in that combo as how it works compared to the lighter booster. Soon we will know. Thanks for the testing.