Versions of the XTP

[rangeball]

Many name brands such as harvester, TC, etc, seem to sell the saboted XTP for muzzleloaders. Are these the standard XTP or the mag version? Interested in the 300 grainers.

Thanks

[DBinNY]

Most here would recommend the 300 gr (non-mag) XTPs. You can buy them bulk in a box of 50 and use whatever sabot fits best in your bore. My gun likes them with the harvester black short (non CR) or the short MMP (those are the only 2 I've tried it with). It all depends on how tight your bore is.

[wilmsmeyer]

I've reported this before, but don't discount the MAG versions. One of the teenagers at camp has taken a bunch of deer cleanly and with authority with the 300 XTP MAG. MV in his Knight is barely 1,600 fps. One recovered bullet showed a very nice mushroom. The rest pass throughs.

Why is he using them? His Dad brought back the wrong stuff and he just went with it after seeing that it shot so well.

My opinion is that if they shot very good for someone, it would be a fine whitetail bullet.

[rangeball]

Interesting... I had thought from reading past posts the mag was a no go... Most selling this saboted bullet don't say which version they're using, and their pics are hard to tell from cause they show them in the sabot usually.

With the length of my order list, I didn't want to spring with a whole box of 50 right off the bat.

Let me ask this a different way. If I grab a 12-15 pack of saboted XTPs off the shelf at walmart or somewhere, and they happen to be the mags, if they're accurate does that necessarily mean the non-mags will shoot the same?

Did some playing around with a trajectory calculator yesterday, XTP bc of .180 versus harvester PT 300gr of .240, same zero, the XTP is only 1/2" lower drop at 200 yards, and only 2" more at 250. Not much of a difference

[wilmsmeyer]

Rangeball,

You have done your homework! The range time will tell the true tale but under 200 yds, there will not be an appreciable difference.

The MAG's may or may not shoot as well. You have to try them. Remember, these "MAG's" were developed for Magnum pistol loads such as heavy revolver loads. What revolver do you know of that pushes 300 gr bullets much over 1,600 fps in .45 cal? The Savage at 2300-2400 will possibly shred them on solid bone hits.

I am going to retrieve a picture that I posted a while back...the one and only recovered 300 XTP MAG in out collection of recovered ordinance. Give me a minute and I'll edit this post.


This bullet passed through the chest broadside and barely stuck in a tree a few feet behind the deer. Found it kinda by accident. The mushrooming happened in the deer as indicated by the hair and meat trapped under the folded down jacket. Nothing wrong with that and obvious ability to expand at speeds as low as the impact speed of about 1,450.

[rangeball]

Looks like good solid terminal performance to me

Thanks for digging that up and sharing.

[DBinNY]

Here's the non-mag version recovered from a deer (the one on the right . MV was around 2240 and range was about 60 yards. Broke the scapula (shoulder blade) on the way in and stopped under the skin on the off side. The deer lumbered toward a logging road so I was cheering him on. He almost made it but I had to drag him 10 yards.

[Harley]

I think, if you buy a box of 50, the Hornady number is 45230 for the non-mag type. A box will cost you about $14 plus, say $9 S&H. Order two boxes and the S&H goes up to about $11. Add it up and divide by 100 and your cost per bullet is $0.39. Even if subsequent testing finds a bullet your rifle likes better, I'd bet that the XTP will perform well, either as a hunting or plinking load - and the price is right.

Harley

[younghunter86]

Mar 6, 2009 21:27:59 GMT -5 DBinNY said:

SNIP:
he deer lumbered toward a logging road so I was cheering him on.

;D ;D ;D That's funny right there!

Mar 6, 2009 22:46:08 GMT -5 Harley said:

I think, if you buy a box of 50, the Hornady number is 45230 for the non-mag type. A box will cost you about $14 plus, say $9 S&H. Order two boxes and the S&H goes up to about $11. Add it up and divide by 100 and your cost per bullet is $0.39. Even if subsequent testing finds a bullet your rifle likes better, I'd bet that the XTP will perform well, either as a hunting or plinking load - and the price is right.

Harley

+1

[rossman40]

You have to be alert when buying packaged XTPs. Hornady now only packages the the .452 XTP Mag with .50 cal sabots (black) but also sells .429 XTP bullets with .50 cal sabots (green). Traditions packages the XTP also but is very sneaky, they will sell you a 300 or 240gr .429 XTP in a black .50/.429 sabot, it is a bit deceptive and for them a .429 240gr XTP is much cheaper then a .452 240gr XTP Mag. The shooter goes to the store and sees the Hornady packaged 240gr XTP Mag and then sees the Traditions packaged 240gr much cheaper and he thinks he is getting a deal with the price difference. Or they list their 250gr Supreme Mag Hunter bullet as a XTP Mag and everyone should know that Hornady does not make a 250gr XTP Mag. The way to tell the difference on a XTP Mag is the jacket goes into the nose cavity. XTP Mags are also only .452 diameter and larger. A .452 300gr XTP Mag has one cannelure and the non-mag version has two as in DB's photo (also be careful as the .429 300gr XTP also has two)

[Guessed]

I would've posted last night from work, but I wanted to look and make sure before I mis-remember. To add to Rossman's data: The 45230 XTP is appx. .778 oal with an SD of .210, a BC of .180, a double cannelure, and a big HP with 6 splits.
The 45235 XTP Mag is appx. .808 oal with an SD of .210, a BC of .200, a single cannelure, and a small HP with 4 splits. Both jackets appear to wrap into the HP but the smaller HP appears to have the deeper jacket roll.

[Guessed]

$h!+,,, I mean, Missed it by THAT much. Needed three spaces to get the #'s to hang beneath each other. Though the word MAG would do it. So much for clever, but at least the rest of my efforts are backed by a mic., a book, and two half ful boxes.

[rangeball]

I agree that assuming it shoots (and there's a high percentage it will), the XTP would be a great bullet for both the range and field.

Rossman, thanks for that. That's what I was wondering, what the specific differences were, and you cleared it up nicely. I would have bought the first pack I saw and not thought twice.

Makes me glad I decided to pass on the XTPs (for now) and go with the 300gr .458 #4500s

[deadeer]

I have taken a few deer with the 240 and 300 gr .452 mags and was very happy with performance. The 240 was 2215fps from an Encore pistol, but it would not keep a scope on straight, actually bent a Burris 3x12 tube in front of front ring, as well as many other problems, but sure did knock the deer silly. I read where, I think Rossman, said he shot them at 27 or 2800fps, and wanted to ask how they did for him? Mine stayed together, where the non mag always came apart, but still killed the deer just the same. I prefer a shoulder/spine shot, but have had a few problems with some bullets penetrating. Harvestor PT Gold was HUGE disappointment at 2000fps in an Encore. Nice mushroom, no penetraion at all.
deadeer

[rangeball]

Mar 10, 2009 12:50:30 GMT -5 deadeer said:

Harvestor PT Gold was HUGE disappointment at 2000fps in an Encore. Nice mushroom, no penetraion at all.
deadeer

deadeer, as they are on my list, this has me quite interested. The only terminal feedback I've received on them is from Harvester/Toby bridges.

Were you shooting the 250 or 300 grainers? By no penetration, did you mean bone or soft-tissue.

Did the bullet hold together?

[deadeer]

Rangeball,

I used the 260 gr PT Gold. I came across hpmuzzleloading.com and read a lot of Toby Bridges stuff. He's very convincing. I even bought the Leatherwwod scope he endorses and am very happy with it. He is one of the pioneers of muzzleloading, smokeless too. Very nice guy and he will reply personally to email. The PT Gold was VERY accurate for me, but it just stopped on 2 shoulder shot deer last season for me. One deer was killed by my buddy, one lost. The one we found had the shoulder bone smashed and the bullet was sitting there, perfect mushroom. NO penetration to vitals. They are a plated lead bullet, not jacketed, and may be too soft for Savage. I haven't tried them. Those deer were shot at 2000 fps mv from BH 209- Encore. This is my first year with Savage, so no hunting experience yet. IMHO, I would shy away, but just one guys opinion. Funny how you don't hear about them on here though! I switched to 250 TMZ mid season, and killed 3 deer to 225 yds, all pass thru's and BIG holes, hope I can get them to shoot in my Savage, but haven't tried them yet either. I have been messing around with 300gr's regulars so far.
deadeer

[rangeball]

Thanks for the info. Toby was very gracious via email in sharing his experience with me, says he's pushing them pretty fast with big heapings of BH209, just a tad under what I would shoot them at smokeless, and has had great terminal performance. I don't favor the shoulder shot, so they should be ok, but doesn't sound like they'd have a margin for error if things are perfect. I think the 300s are the only ones still on my list