BoatTails in a 50cal

[GMB54-120]

I really like the Barnes 458 300gr SOCOM in my sub guns but would like to achieve between 2100-2200fps with smokeless. They shot well for me with max loads of BH209, knurled and in a MMP Orange sabot.

I couldn't get them to shoot well with a Harvester BCR and the yellow CR is a bear to load in my Knight.

I tried 34 or 37gr of N110 ( i forgot) in the MMP un knurled and im fairly sure the sabot failed. Either the barrel was too hot or the powder is just too fast for this application.

Ive seen some good results with the Barnes 245gr Spitfire, so i know it is possible to get them to shoot even if fps is a bit low. Im not trying to get them screaming but a solid 2100fps would be nice and it puts that bullet in a good fps match for its design at 200 yards.

Any tips from anyone that has had success with the 285gr Spitfire? Its the closest bullet for comparison. Did a slower powder like N120 or Re7 help and was it possible to get an accurate 2100-2200fps load?

If you did get them to shoot how low did you have to go and with what powder? I have both N120 and Re7 ready to load up in tubes. Ive knurles the SOCOMs and the load very well with the MMP Orange in the NULA. Its slower twist might be a blessing or a curse with this bullet since it is kind of long.

I have a bunch of the285s and the 300gr SOCOM but since the SOCOM is closer to bore i really want to make them work even if its only slightly faster than a max load of BH209.

Any suggestions?....i also have some MMP sub bases but i would prefer to avoid them. Even 2000-2100fps would be adequate if i can get it to shoot that slow in a slow twist. I need some suggestions before i head out this weekend.

Thanks a bunch.

[mike3132]

Speed up your load. I only had to knurl 245's but 285 or 300 fit tight enough no knurling was needed. You have to shoot them in the supplied sabot since they are boattail. Harvester's makes a replacement sabot them too.

I used the same load I did for 245's with the 285's which was 46 grains of old lot 4759.

Whether to knurl or not depends on sabot to bore fit. A loose fit will result in poor accuracy or blowing sabots, a snug fit good accuracy with proper ignition.

I personally would try another powder like 4759 (43-47grn) or Reloader 7 in the 63-67 grain range.

Barrel heat is the killer in summer weather trying to get accuracy. Use of a barrel cooler is highly recommended. Good luck, mike

[dave d.]

:)Scott boattails are tough with smokeless they want to drill thru the bottom of the sabot. I would think if the boattail was similar to the spitfire those yellow sabots are the only game in town. I know wilms has had real good luck with those spitfires up to 2600,2700fps. I haven't shot a .50 in along time so I can't give any load recommendation but I'm sure some guys here will help. Goodluck and I see mike has responded with some load and sabot choices.

[mike3132]

Are you trying to shoot 458 bullets or 451 bullets? I haven't seen any .458 SOCOM bullets but if they are boattail you will have a hard time getting them to shoot accurate without a sabot that fits boat tail bullets and as far as I know no one is making a .458 boattail sabot for .50.

If the bullet you are using is .451 then use the boattail sabots and knurl if loose. Good luck, Mike

[jdmax]

I can not say about the 300gr. I have benn getting great accuracy with the 250 TMZ,lightly knurled. The big difference, I believe, is using 65 gr of n120. With n110 I was still blowing sabots with 42-44 gr. This load is with the supplied yellow sabot and is a bear to get down the barrel, but i have shot 7 straight 3 shot groups at 1" or less at 100 yds. 7 different days temperature from 40-72 average 2578 fps and no poi change.
JDMAX

[GMB54-120]

The SOCOMs are a .458 and will fit a Harvester yellow for BTs BUT they are really tight. Ive got plenty of other Knight/Barnes BT sabots for the Spitfires if i want to try them. The SOCOMs wont fit them though. They are WAY too tight in those.

I was thinking about starting with 55-57gr of N120 and 60gr of Re7. I didn't really want to exceed 60gr of N120 or 63gr of Re7. Im not looking for a speed demon. Just something that will do better than BH209 and not blow sabots.

Thanks guys

[rangeball]

It seems like someone somewhere recommended putting a release agent on the bottom of the bullet and dropping a bit of epoxy or something in the bottom of a black HCR to create a boattail friendly sabot?

[deadon]

May 27, 2011 11:05:17 GMT -5 jdmax said:

I can not say about the 300gr. I have benn getting great accuracy with the 250 TMZ,lightly knurled. The big difference, I believe, is using 65 gr of n120. With n110 I was still blowing sabots with 42-44 gr. This load is with the supplied yellow sabot and is a bear to get down the barrel, but i have shot 7 straight 3 shot groups at 1" or less at 100 yds. 7 different days temperature from 40-72 average 2578 fps and no poi change.
JDMAX

JD, sounds like you found a GREAT LOAD.Wonder what the BC is, Rusty

[Dave W]

You could try an aluminum washer under the .458 Socom with one of the regular .458 sabots. I have did it with the TMZ's & Spitfires with the standard sabots for .451-2 bullets. The washer needs to fill the base of the sabot pretty well. McMaster Carr has some .44 OD aluminum washers that might work with the MMP orange or you could try a smaller size with the BCR.

[fowlplay]

Try a Barnes 250 or 290 TEZ bullets with any sabot you want. They are a flat base bullet.

I have shot alot of RL7 with the 250 and 290 grain bullets with good accuracy. With RL7 I actually got close to 100 fps faster with the 290g bullets. I guess I was getting a more complete burn with the heavier bullet. It is the only powder I have seen that would do this. Normally the lighter bullet would fly faster.

[GMB54-120]

fowlplay

If i had 84 of the flat base Barnes bullets, i wouldn't be asking. I use Re7 too with flat based 300gr-325gr 458s with very good results in the Savage.

The problem is i have 84 of the SOCOMS already because they shoot so well in my sub guns including my 54cal and a Harvester non BT sabot. Ive got a bunch of 285gr Spitfires also and the correct sabots for them but once in awhile the Spitfires drill (not the sabot) instead of expanding. I usually only shoot them at paper any more since i got them really cheap.

This is also in my NULA with a slower twist and lighter barrel contour than my Savage so i need it fast enough to stabilize but i want to avoid top end pressures. IMO Re7 should do this really well. The SOCOMS will stabilize/expand fine at about 1800-1900fps MV in a 1-28 even with a 20" barrel using subs. The NULA also has a really tight bore so the Harvester yellow sabots that worked ok in my Knight 50 are WAY too tight in the NULA. The MMP Orange worked fine with subs but its not a BT sabot. I tried them in the NULA and i THINK the sabot failed with a mild load of N110 that should have been just about 100-200fps faster than subs. Granted the barrel was a bit warm and temps were in the 81F range.

Yesterday looked like rain and the camp is packed with people. So for safety i avoided shooting. Today and tomorrow its going to be over 90F, so conditions are less than ideal. The main road down to the river is too close to my range and trying to keep track of 10 kids makes it hard to concentrate on the load and safety. Most of them should be leaving early Monday so i may try then or take off a day in the middle of the week.

At least ive got a bunch of tubes loaded with 55-57gr of N120 and another batch with 57-60gr of Re7. Im estimating that should get it into the fps range i want and enough pressure for a fairly good burn. Its a bit light for Re7 data ive seen but since its a double based powder it might just work. I know 57gr of N120 seems to work pretty well in the NULA with some 300gr bullets but i hate to burn the "black gold" if its blowing sabots.

[mountainam]

GM, I shot both weights of Spitfires at one time and they loaded terribly hard (70+ lbs) in my Savage and Knight with the supplied sabots. I changed to Harvester YELLOW CR sabots for boat tails and solved the problem. No more sabot drilling. You are right in the ballpark with Re 7 amounts. Good Luck!