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Post by tar12 on Apr 29, 2011 17:21:55 GMT -5
A 25 degree difference...since I almost never shoot in 65 degree plus temps I will have to see how this plays out in my "normal" temps.I can see a 30 degree swing during the winter months. I am wondering if I will see the same POI change that you are experincing in warmer to cool temps.....I did not see this on "hide" with 8 deer this past winter.I never saw the POI in the.50 either but once again the temps were much cooler and relatively stable during deer season.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Apr 29, 2011 17:51:42 GMT -5
Tar, unless something really shows up different this is going to be my hunting load come fall.
The 60gr load has been very consistent for me so far on the "first shot" of every session. The difference in the 2 first shots from 75 to 48 degrees is likely about as good as I can shoot, meaning that the load probably would shoot in the same hole on the first shot every session, IF I were capable of it.
When I shot this load a month ago I was concerned of shots falling out but have since learned that was due to barrel heat. Every load I shot after that would do the same fall down on the target thing that the N120 did which is the reason I went back to the N120 load to see what happened at longer barrel cooling intervals.
Note on the target this morning the #2 shot was cooled 10 minutes and fell out a bit but still only 1.5" in height......then sit the gun down and waited 20 minutes and poi comes right back up to the first shot. I will take 2" groups at this speed any time.
Long story short, it would take a really stellar new load to change from the N120 for me.
Load has plenty of speed (shot 1 this morning went 2,773fps).
Load is simple and easy being a single vs duplex plus no swabbing or cleaning, just load and shoot (just requires patience OR cooler temps for multiple shots)
Load is as capable of good repeatable 1st shot accuracy as I have tested.
Load will be very stable in cold temps.
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Post by tar12 on Apr 29, 2011 18:18:26 GMT -5
It was 35-40 degrees when I shot the first group with N-120. I was impressed and was continually impressed through out the season. 2 deer were taken over 300 yds. both shots impacted just high of center mass in the boiler room...as expected and anticipated. My buck was hit squarely through both shoulder blades.Dirt nap right there. It will take a mind blowing single to get me to quit using the ultimate deer killer.. ;D
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Post by jims on Apr 29, 2011 18:43:26 GMT -5
You two have saved me a great deal of trial and error I think. If you two think that is the deer load I don't think I have to try anything else except for some 200 SSTs.
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Post by Savage Shooter on Apr 29, 2011 19:47:53 GMT -5
You two have saved me a great deal of trial and error I think. If you two think that is the deer load I don't think I have to try anything else except for some 200 SSTs. Just be patient, more so than with 4198 or any of the other powders I have shot. IMO the quicker pressure spike it has (reason so temp stable too) will give you very false target results if you get the barrel the least bit warm. This bothered me a bit at first since I am down south and will hunt on some oppressively hot days..........so I loaded it the other morning and set in the back seat of the truck and went to work.......kept the windows up all day. Barrel was close to 100 degrees when I shot the first shot that evening..........it went the exact same poi area as the targets above............put the gun back in the truck and headed home. In the next few days I will shoot 1 shot at a time at the same target over a period of days to finalize my already high confidence in this load. |
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Post by Richard on Apr 29, 2011 20:21:58 GMT -5
Tar.........chances are if that bullet was off by and inch or two it would not have made any difference on those eight deer.....Right? What we are dealing here on this forum is "TARGET" accuracy and "HUNTING" accuracy..................Two different animals (no pun intended) We have a gang of loads.........singles, duplex and triplex which are all capable of taking deer (or whatever) out to 300 yards. And if that is ALL we are interested, than the Savage/PN can get downright boring. On the other hand, the target aspect is what makes shooting these rifles interesting and fun..............AND, at the same time allows for even better more precise loads. Look at how all this "stuff" keeps the interest in this board  Richard |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2011 22:07:35 GMT -5
shhh!!! Were still shooting PRIMITIVE weapons. Remember .
I'm having a hard time locating n120, I was going to go with 4198 next, but now it looks like roadtrip time. Thanks for the REAL scoop on a consistent load. If I don't have a .45 by next hunting season I know I can work with n120 to get a good
confident deer killer load together. It does get hot in florida one day and cold as heck the next so this thread does show that there is a load that you can count on even at different temperature extremes.
Thanks again SAVAGE SHOOTER,
Greenhorn
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Post by tar12 on Apr 30, 2011 5:36:54 GMT -5
Richard,
Do you think I shot 1 target group and said Wahoo!!! Holy Grail? Not hardly...while I am a hunter first and foremost accuracy and consistency have to be there first before I start slinging lead or copper at hide.While I do not shoot as much at paper I do shoot more than enough to have every confidence in the load I am shooting. I look for simplicity as I do not have any desire or time or money for endless loads of duplexes,triplexes or cooling rods. Just consistant,accurate go to hunting loads that the avg. shooter and hunter are interested in.To each his own.When I sink my teeth into a load I will ride it like I stole it and know every idiosyncrasy of that load relative to my hunting conditions and then I will endorse it.The K.I.S.S. motto fits my hectic life perfectly!
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Post by Chris Champion on Apr 30, 2011 8:29:37 GMT -5
Very encouraging. I picked up 2 lbs of N120 a couple of weeks ago after hearing Rick (tar12) sing its praises last fall and seeing a discouraging drop in velocity with H4198 a couple of months ago in some cold weather testing. This along with the freezer testing that shooter did recently has me thinking it's time to give N120 a go.
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Post by shooter on Apr 30, 2011 9:07:35 GMT -5
Very encouraging. I picked up 2 lbs of N120 a couple of weeks ago after hearing Rick (tar12) sing its praises last fall and seeing a discouraging drop in velocity with H4198 a couple of months ago in some cold weather testing. This along with the freezer testing that shooter did recently has me thinking it's time to give N120 a go. I got 4 lb coming next week.I gonna change over as well.  |
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Post by dave d. on Apr 30, 2011 10:28:15 GMT -5
:)shame,shame on you guys giving up on h4198 one of the best powders for the .45 because of one test. i have shoot it thru a chrony down to 20 degrees from 80 degrees with 60fps loss. this cat will continue to shoot h4198 which has never let me down in any condition. i do like n120 but between the cost and know where local to get it i will continue with 4198 and will do further testing myself.
:)mark very nice shooting as always...
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Post by Chris Champion on Apr 30, 2011 10:37:11 GMT -5
:)shame,shame on you guys giving up on h4198 one of the best powders for the .45 because of one test. i have shoot it thru a chrony down to 20 degrees from 80 degrees with 60fps loss. this cat will continue to shoot h4198 which has never let me down in any condition. i do like n120 but between the cost and know where local to get it i will continue with 4198 and will do further testing myself. :)mark very nice shooting as always... ;)Now don't get me wrong Dave, I'm not giving up on 4198 just yet. In the temps I shot it in this past winter I'm likely to stay in the house as opposed to sitting on stand...sub 10 deg F. It's just time to give N120 a fair shot, pardon the pun  |
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Post by tar12 on Apr 30, 2011 11:06:54 GMT -5
There is no shame in my game DaveD if it works! ;D
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Post by Richard on Apr 30, 2011 12:48:28 GMT -5
Hey.............if your worried about a little drop in velocity with H-4198? Subtract 10 grains of it and add 10 gr. of N-110. I know this might be a little complicated for Rick ;D but some can figure out how to put the vial of powder in that only has a little bit......First and then add the one with a lot of powder second ;D. Seriously, I am just busting balls! No doubt, if it works for you and you are happy? That is all that counts. CONFIDENCE!
Richard
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2011 14:04:52 GMT -5
Savage Shooter.... That is the way I see it.... A lot of times when our results don't re-produce we are quick to blame it on the powder, or the change in temperature, or what ever else we can think of, when in truth the difference is most likely found in our shooting ability. My Pac-Nor has shot some pretty amazing groups with both N120 and H4198 at temps that range from 50 to 20 degrees. Quite a few 3/4"- 1 1/4" CTC @ 200yds with both powders and with both the 195 Barnes and the 200SST. And there are some days when 2-3"" is what I get. My eyes, my steadiness, my concentration, and my shooting form are the big varible in my shooting and the results that follow are quick to prove it. Both N120 and H4198 are the cream of the crop in single powder loads...Consistent in velocity, accuracy, and both have never failed for me in the ignition department [down to zero degrees].... Another sleeper in the single powder loads I believe is to be found with 4759.... Somewhere around 45-48 gns. I'll be doing some more testing with that in the near future. These targets were the first I shot with my Pac-Nor @ 200yds a little over a year ago... It was a good day on my part.... Take your pick on which makes for the best hunting load ;D ... 5 deer taken with these between 155 to 265yds all DRT Zen    |
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Post by Richard on Apr 30, 2011 18:46:20 GMT -5
Nice groups Panhandle! There sure is no shortage of powders that produce good groups in these PN's. Whereas with the standard Savage .50 it was always a struggle  One range session a particular powder, sabot/bullet combo would shoot well................the next trip it was terrible Richard |
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Post by tar12 on May 1, 2011 20:11:22 GMT -5
Hey.............if your worried about a little drop in velocity with H-4198? Subtract 10 grains of it and add 10 gr. of N-110. I know this might be a little complicated for Rick ;D but some can figure out how to put the vial of powder in that only has a little bit......First and then add the one with a lot of powder second ;D. Seriously, I am just busting balls! No doubt, if it works for you and you are happy? That is all that counts. CONFIDENCE! Richard Richard I am good to go if the ciphering does not involve using over 20 digits! ;D |
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One range session a particular powder, sabot/bullet combo would shoot well................the next trip it was terrible