A day at the range without Herman...

[Richard]

He went turkey hunting!
So, it just Bill and myself.........................Weather was 70ish, cloudy, a few light and short down pours..........a little windy from time to time but not bad.
Shot some bullets I had never shot before........these were donated from gmb. The ones in group 1 and 2 are the Barnes 155 gr. TAC-XP. They got a big ole' hole in the nose. Supposed to be some type of self defense bullet I thought I would first try them with a light load. (Note, there is a mistake on my data sheet..............It should read 54 gr. NOT 58!
To my surprise, the three shots impacted 9" low and 4" left of my normal POI? I figured it was the bullet and the low velocity So I upped the charge of powder to 62 gr. The velocity went up some but the bullets still impacted right around where the others hit?? Then all of a sudden, the light came on in my head ;D I had removed the barrel this past week to take off the strain gage (what a mess that was). I had to polish the barrel in the lathe get it looking nice. I also put a new 11* crown on along with a 60* bevel (chamfer) on the crown. It is probably only .040" deep. Just enough that the sabot does not catch on the sharp edge. In re-head spacing the barrel, I found it indexed about a 1/4 turn tighter than it had been. This was evident by the location of the old letter etching that was still somewhat visible. In any event, this is what caused the shift in POI Scope was re-adjusted! Neither of these two groups with these charges looked too promising. For load #3, I moved up to a duplex and quite a few fps higher. This load also did not look that great. I would guess that with a bullet like this, it could be tweaked somewhat using different loads but I don't think it is worth the time and money. These bullets "ain't" cheap! And, I only had two left.
This next load #4 is with another bullet from gmb.........He labeled it Montana Gold - 180 gr. --- I have no idea who makes it? It is a jacketed hollow point. I shot it with 43 gr. of 4759....So/so.......One out?
#5 was a duplex combination I had not previously tried using N-133.....Again, nothing to write home about But maybe in a different combo, it might work better..............Thats the fun of playing around with different components
#6 and 7 were both shot with a triplex that has given me good results. While it did good, it too was plagued with a "one out!" I wish I could have callem them "flyers" "pulled" shots, but I could not. The hold, sight picture, trigger squeeze.........the whole "nine yards!" was good.......even the wind flag was cooperating and still the shot move out of the group
And thats that
Richard

[GMB54-120]

The 180gr is JHP made by Montana Gold Bullets. Ive heard it is popular with competition shooters and the jacket might be brass. They have a 200gr but its a TMJ. I like them because they are really cheap JHP plinkers and weight variation is good.

The 155gr TAC-XP would probably do a bit better slower, even with just mild 5744 or N110 loads. It does really well at 2300fps in a 1-28 twist and a cream puff to shoot. Its pretty nasty in hot 10mm hunting loads. Even if you blow all the petals off, (which i have) the bullet retains 140gr. I can get a cheaper version from General Bullets. About $25/40

Those 200gr Noslers though still impress me the most. They seem to shoot really well and they are pretty cheap.

[Deleted]

Richard,
In a perfect world the extra 1/4 turn on your barrell should not have changed your poi. I know we're not there and a scope adjustment fixed the problem but it raises questions to me.
1. Was the barrel "whipping" the bullet down and to the left ?
2. Did you knock your scope out of adjustment working on the gun?
3. Why did it not seat where it was to begin with, what changed?
4. If the barrel is whipping it down and to the left now, are your future groups going to be effected somehow?
Too much time on my hands,
Greenhorn

[edge]

greenhorn, there are many issues with a Savage. threads on the barrel and action are not exactly square to each other, the lug is not square to the face of the action and/or the barrel nut.

Whenever you switch barrels you will need to readjust your scope....it is just the nature of the beast.

edge.

[Deleted]

I figured it was something like that, just overthinking things,overloaded with barrel harmonics, second pressure spikes etc.,LOL.
Thanks Edge,
Greenhorn

[Richard]

Good reply Edge! I kind of think that is just the point in the harmonics where the bullet is released..............In this case, since the barrel is a quarter turn off, the release point put the bullet low and left. Had the barrel made a full half turn, the bullet might have impacted low and right? . So why did the barrel index a 1/4 turn away from original? I suspect some wear and tear in the BP threads may have caused the plug to seat a little deeper and consequently the barrel had to be turned in a little more to achieve the right head space? Every time you remove that BP and clean it and then tighten it back in I suspect there is some wear. For a guy who only removes it once or twice a year, no problem..........for me, it is Every Week! When I have re chambered benchrest barrels, they will generally print fairly close. Anytime you take things apart and put them back, there will be some slight changes. That load alone, being quite "slow" would probably have printed somewhat low to start with. Also, different bullet/load combinations will most often print to a different POI. And did I knock the scope when working on the gun? No, but I did remove it.
And yes, too much time on your hands ;D...........Actually good questions but easily accounted for.
Richard
(And yes, I caught the recoil lug thing Mark ;D ;D )

[Jon]

Edge and Richard. Good explaination and a good thing for other's to keep in mind. It was a good question. Thanks to all.
Jon

[DBinNY]

Thanks Richard, I'll be sure to re-sight my gun if I decide to remove the barrel, re-headspace it and re-crown it just prior to deer season ;D. Pretty good shooting none the less!

[Richard]

Hey...........you never know! ;D
Actually, I believe my trigger pulling was ok Dan, but the load/bullet combinations were not . When you have four good shots and you are confident that your hold and trigger pull and the wind flags were right.........and then the shot goes an inch to the left.......then something is happening beyond your control or...........you have three out of five shots with in 7 fps and they go in the same hole...........but the two shots 25 or so fps outside of these go left and right?? If only we could get loads/components/sabots that produce LOW ES's on a regular basis, our groups would tighten up immensely.

But thanks for thinking my shooting was good ;D
Richard

[spoonover]

Apr 27, 2011 9:55:16 GMT -5 @greenhorn said:

Richard,
In a perfect world the extra 1/4 turn on your barrell should not have changed your poi. I know we're not there and a scope adjustment fixed the problem but it raises questions to me.
1. Was the barrel "whipping" the bullet down and to the left ?
2. Did you knock your scope out of adjustment working on the gun?
3. Why did it not seat where it was to begin with, what changed?
4. If the barrel is whipping it down and to the left now, are your future groups going to be effected somehow?
Too much time on my hands,


Greenhorn

Having switch barrel actions, things never seem to go back the same every time. Five barrels for the same action and one scope is a pain.

First hand experience has thought me to check point of impact, some times no adjustment is needed when switching barrels, keeping things clean and 40 lbs. torque help!

A scope for each barrel is recommended (makes sighting in easy), remember .001" sighting error = 1/4" @ 100 yards. Just think what a bent barrel (minor bend) will do when clocked different! I am sure no barrel is perfectly strait, factory or custom, the latter being nearly perfect!

[Deleted]

Thanks Spoonover for the realistic explanation,like I said in a perfect world nothing would change. But were not there yet!
Greenhorn