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Post by danielbrothers on Apr 7, 2011 9:37:44 GMT -5
I bought this rifle from a pawn shop, and it looks brand new.. but after getting it home... I realized that it would fire while being on safety... so... I sent it back to Savage... they fixed the safety... said it was a mechanical faliure.... but now they say that the gun is unsafe because they said someone filed down the inside of the receiver's bolt slot, so that now the bolt does not stay locked down.
Question....
why would anyone file down the receiver's bolt slot....?
Can this slot wear from regular use...?
Is it dangerous to shoot....?
Can it be fixed...?
Any other thoughts...?
PS.. it's still in Savage's hands right now... they are getting ready to send it back..
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Post by mike.dawson on Apr 7, 2011 9:52:55 GMT -5
It sounds like they did this to able to get the bolt out for clean the breech plug without removing the second action screw which usually changes the POI unless a third pillar was installed to secure the action when the savage action screw is removed to clean/replace the BP /vent liner
Mike
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Post by edge on Apr 7, 2011 10:20:29 GMT -5
SNIP.
PS.. it's still in Savage's hands right now... they are getting ready to send it back.. Is Savage willing to send it back AND saying that it is UNSAFE? edge. |
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Post by danielbrothers on Apr 7, 2011 10:28:33 GMT -5
I talked to them yesterday... and they said it was unsafe to shoot... and they would make record of it on their end... but that was it...
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Post by edge on Apr 7, 2011 10:35:55 GMT -5
I'd take it back to the pawn shop with the info from Savage.
I suspect that unless you bought the rifle AS-IS, but there should still be an implied merchantability of the item...I suspect you would need to check your State law on the subject.
edge.
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 7, 2011 10:35:56 GMT -5
Where abouts are you located at Daniel? If it is not major I can have my welder TIG it up and then machine back to specs. Major problems then it could cost more then the gun is worth. There is no locking lugs on a 10ML-II. The rear action screw acts more as a guide and retention. If they cut the bolt handle slot then yes, pressure could easily open the bolt throwing it back in your face.
The Savage safety blocks the trigger and has nothing to do with the bolt so I'm a bit puzzled about the modifications without being able to see it.
I have to agree with Edge, it is not like Savage to send you back something un-safe. Being a ML replacing the receiver isn't that much of a FFL question but a tax question. Try talking to the pawn shop and see what can happen there.
Keep us posted!
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Post by bigmoose on Apr 7, 2011 11:01:37 GMT -5
Having dealt with Savage on many occasions, I'm puzzled .
Didn't they explain what it would take to make the rifle safe, Its is not a warranty issue, so they must have given an estimate, on the cost of repair, needless to say, I don't know what the conversations were, But I think I know Joe DeGrande, and its hard to think of him sending back the rifle, and just saying its unsafe.
If you have not been speaking with Joe, I strongly recommend your calling him direct. He is a very fine gent, who takes his joe seriously.....costomer service
Good Luck
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Post by bigmoose on Apr 7, 2011 13:27:47 GMT -5
Job seriously
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Post by tar12 on Apr 7, 2011 17:22:08 GMT -5
Post some pictures so we can see what you are dealing with..
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Post by danielbrothers on Apr 7, 2011 19:02:01 GMT -5
I haven't received the rifle back yet... so I can't get any pictures of the problem... but i will... I do live in SC... and don't know who to look at it... but am willing to ship it somewhere... I only talked to a guy named Andrew... and couldn't talk to the gunsmith that looked at my gun... the only options i had was to either buy the new one... or have it returned... which I did... not wanting too buy a new one... so... I guess I'm at the mercy of the forum board guys... thanks so much for your help... if you have anymore ideas... let me know...thanks...Dan
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Post by Richard on Apr 7, 2011 19:31:22 GMT -5
How close are you to the Hickory area in NC? (about one hour north west of Charlotte) I would be happy to look at it if you can get it here? I can't see anyone for any reason grinding out the slot where the bolt handle fits into...........and as mentioned, that is the part of the receiver that would keep the bolt from moving rearward. If it is just the end of the screw that keeps the bolt from coming back, that is not really a safety issue.
When you get it back, post some detailed pictures.
Richard
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Post by danielbrothers on Apr 9, 2011 19:14:56 GMT -5
I'm located about 2 1/2 hours south of charlotte... and about half way between columbia and charleston.... in santee... which is on lake marion, off of 1-95...... down here where all the Big Catfish live... if you Richard or anyone else has any good ideas... you can come on down for a few days of catfishing, and bowfishing... and air gun playing... anytime.... it would be too easy to ship this rifle somewhere.. might as well make a vacation out of it... thanks...Dan
I'll try to get pics and info when i get the gun... right now I'm spooked with the whole thing... and I bought it as is... so I have to fix it one way or another...
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Post by danielbrothers on Apr 11, 2011 14:51:44 GMT -5
Just got the rifle back from savage... Quote....
PER CUSTOMER REQUEST, THE FIREARM IS BEING RETURNED UNREPAIRED. SAVAGE ARMS DOES NOT RECOMMEND THE USE OF THIS FIREARM IN IT'S CURRENT CONDITION, THE FIREARM IS UNSAFE AND SHOULD NOT BE USED.
I don't understand their statement... I sent it back to be repaired... they told me it could not be repaired, and would only sell me a new one... but their statement makes it sound like they were willing... but i was not... which is NOT the case at all. I have never had anything happen like this before...I'm shocked. I have some pics if I can get them uploaded. It seems like the bolt will not lock down into place... it feels springy when forcing it down into the bolt slot... it only stays down after you pull the trigger. Any help will be appreciated.., thanks...Dan
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Post by danielbrothers on Apr 11, 2011 15:01:04 GMT -5
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 11, 2011 17:38:53 GMT -5
The bolt is minor, just a clean-up. The receiver is the problem, what a butcher job! It will have to be welded up and then machined back. Something like that I have TIGed using short passes with cooling in between so not to take the temper/hardening out of the rest of the receiver. This is about how much you will have to add,  |
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Post by danielbrothers on Apr 11, 2011 17:49:39 GMT -5
So your saying Ross.... that someone did tamper with it... WOW... I had no idea what I was looking at when i bought it from the pawn shop in Shallotte, NC on my Christmas Vacation to my mother-in-laws... Man O Man... I thought I had found a Christmas present for myself.
Why would someone do that... what would be their purpose....?
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 11, 2011 17:57:54 GMT -5
It is one of those things where you may never know the reason for such total stupidity, but they guy thought it was the answer at the time.
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Post by fishhawk on Apr 11, 2011 18:07:41 GMT -5
Daniel, if Rossman is willing to work on it I would send it to him. He is our resident gun guru!
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Post by tar12 on Apr 11, 2011 19:51:37 GMT -5
With this much stupidity going on I would check to see if this barrel is bulged before I went any further with it. I think this jack wagon was "stress relieving" the action due to the bolt being hard to close due to carbon build up? What else could he have been thinking?
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Post by DBinNY on Apr 11, 2011 20:19:35 GMT -5
Good point Tar. The guy who ground that off wasn't likely a direct descendant of Einstein. Rossman, however, does have the answer short of getting a whole new action. I'd ship it to him if it were mine. May also need to run a C drill in that primer pocket on the breech plug to lessen the need for the cam.
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Post by ET on Apr 11, 2011 20:30:58 GMT -5
Rossman40
Best Wishes on this endeavor because of the amount of localized stress acting on the receiver for this amount of weld build up.
Ed
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Post by danielbrothers on Apr 11, 2011 21:58:39 GMT -5
Man O Man... what a deal... maybe I should sell it to someone who knows how to fix it... do you think it's worth 375.00 TYD...?
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larry
8 Pointer
Posts: 172
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Post by larry on Apr 12, 2011 7:16:33 GMT -5
:)First thing I would do is take it back to where you purchased it, along with the letter from savage and see if they would refund your money- then go purchase a new one.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 7:21:00 GMT -5
I would definately take it back if i could, if not I would let Rossman have it welded up and machine it back to spec....just my 2c
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Post by edge on Apr 12, 2011 7:49:18 GMT -5
Since this is a ML-II the ramp is only marginally important!
You do need one of the two to be correct for the bolt to stay closed. Fix the bolt or fix that receiver and it should work fine.
If you are afraid of welding it then drill and tap for a new bolt screw.
edge.
PS I suspect that the BP does not, or at some time did not bottom out...perhaps due to powder in threads. Does it close all the way forward now?
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Post by danielbrothers on Apr 12, 2011 9:16:50 GMT -5
it closes all the way down...when you apply pressure, forward and downward, when bolting it down... but you have to hold it there or it springs up a little bit..
and returning it to that pawn shop is not an option.... thanks..
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Post by whyohe on Apr 12, 2011 15:22:26 GMT -5
from looking at the bottom of the bolt the rear action screw was too long and probably hard to close and he thought he could fix it that way.  welding or buying a new recever is only fix. sorry for your luck. but i would definatly check the barrel. you just dont know what other "dumb" things the previous person did. |
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 12, 2011 18:53:26 GMT -5
The nub on the rear action screw is nothing more then a guide and a retention device. The nub basicly is centered in the "L",  At "A" you see a ding where the person tried to tighten the rear screw without it being in the groove. A dremel tool will fix that. I do not think any modification was done here by the dufuss,,, I mean previous owner. On the rear you have to have the bolt a certain distance, too far back and it not only effects headspace but firing pin travel as well. You have to remember that the cocking piece pin will go against the sear and with the lack of bolt lugs on the 10ML-II it is actually forcing the bolt to the rear. The receiver at the rear of the bolt handle slot stops this. For those who have not seen it a loose bolt handle will allow enough play front-to-rear and lessen the firing strength/travel so the 10ML-II will not fire. |
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Post by cfvickers on Apr 13, 2011 2:06:00 GMT -5
Semi related question, If there are no locking lugs on the ML-II why was it deemed a better rifle than the 10ML. It would seem the original design would be even safer than the new one as it has a breech plug AND the locking lugs. I understand the questions that were raised on a removable cap holder that looked like a shell case, and that the original required paperwork, but it doesn't make sense to me why they removed the locking lugs altogether. they just seem like they would be an added safety measure.
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Post by rossman40 on Apr 13, 2011 10:58:03 GMT -5
The thing is to dodge the ATF 4473 the rifle cannot be modified to fire a centerfire cartridge. At same time it simplified manufacturing by doing away with the lug raceways in the receiver so it was a win-win engineering answer. If you tried to fire a centerfire cartridge with no bolt lugs you would end up with the bolt in your face sooner or later.
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welding or buying a new recever is only fix. sorry for your luck. but i would definatly check the barrel. you just dont know what other "dumb" things the previous person did.