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Post by lanenebraska on Mar 27, 2011 10:32:52 GMT -5
I've used some Trail boss in my 45-70 NEF smokeless conversion, with good results. Am curious as to the pressure curve. Not the fastest powder by any means, But I was wondering if the guys that own the pressure trace equipment would be interested in trying it out? I shoot 50g of TrailBoss with the 200g SST/smooth Blue Harvester, for about a 1850-1900fps I find that a very firm powder compression, gives the best accuracy/lowest deviation. Could one of the Pressure Test equipment owners run this load for a look and post it? Thanks  |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 27, 2011 10:44:43 GMT -5
Ive also been curious about this powder for reduced power loads.
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Post by lanenebraska on Apr 4, 2011 9:52:30 GMT -5
Maybe someone will run some and gives us a look at the curve |
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Post by redpep on Apr 4, 2011 21:00:34 GMT -5
As you can see Lane is not looking to set any speed records with this and the amount of powder he is using is not excessively high. We seem to try all other loads and powder yet no one cares to give this a serious discussion.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Apr 4, 2011 23:02:51 GMT -5
At least its cheap to find out. I would have no idea where to start other than 45/70 data.
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Post by rangeball on Apr 5, 2011 8:38:42 GMT -5
I think it would depend on if someone who has PT equipment also has that powder on hand.
Since the QL data estimates are close to what the PT is showing, perhaps that would be a quick easy way to get a ball park expectation? Edge?
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Post by TGinPA on Apr 5, 2011 12:50:04 GMT -5
Is it corrosive?
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Post by rangeball on Apr 5, 2011 13:17:44 GMT -5
TG, pretty sure it's a smokeless powder. I'm editing my comment. My assumption that smokeless = non-corrosive may or may not be correct, and hope to learn here which is correct |
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Post by redpep on Apr 5, 2011 15:17:57 GMT -5
Trail Boss is smokeless. This a very interesting powder and deserves some discussion and comments
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Post by lanenebraska on May 23, 2011 14:44:43 GMT -5
OK
I'm ready to donate $40.00 to someone with the trace equipment, so some Trail Boss can be tested.
Should be enough for a can of powder, some sabots, and some gas ta get you to the range, etc....
Any takers?
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Post by mountainam on May 23, 2011 15:23:36 GMT -5
I was curious about it as a duplex booster powder. As far as a main powder I'd be concerned. In the burn-rate chart it falls between Green Dot and Unique. I realize that doesn't always mean anything, but in this case it is way quicker burning than anything that is normally used. From what I understand of it, it is very bulky but again, it is so much quicker than anything else used. I thought that Longshot someone was talking of using was a gutsy leap and Trail Boss is WAY quicker. Now I'm REALLY curious!
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Post by redpep on May 23, 2011 17:16:38 GMT -5
No pressure traces, but I have som readings with my .50 cal over the Chronograph using a .452 250gn HPXTP, mmp short sabot, win primer.
Speeds ranged from 1630 to 1785. Five shot Groups were any where from 2-5", no consistentcy
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Post by edge on May 24, 2011 7:29:48 GMT -5
Unless there is something special about this powder 50 grains is a bomb in the making!
This powder is MUCH too fast for safe usage. If your barrel is not bulged, and it probably is, it will happen if you get a good burn and the sabot does not blow!!
IMO.
edge.
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Post by edge on May 24, 2011 7:33:27 GMT -5
FYI, on the Hodgdon Burn Rate Chart,
Trail Boss is #19
Lil'Gun is #61
N120 is #73
edge.
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Post by edge on May 24, 2011 7:53:21 GMT -5
QL does not have Trail Boss.
If I use a slower powder such as AA Solo 1250 I find that since it is very bulky ( which lowers pressure) it won't fit into a 45-70 case so I have to move to a 458 Win Mag.
I'll add a 250 grain .457 lead bullet for low pressure.
QL estimate is 90,224 psi and 2704 fps.
If you get good ignition I doubt the barrel will survive that pressure.
edge.
SORRY, I missed the 200 grain and not 250. That would drop the "potential" pressure to 85,851 psi.
Shoot at your own risk.
Also if you got the 20 grain load to its potential it would still be too much!
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Post by lanenebraska on May 24, 2011 12:52:52 GMT -5
FYI "I shoot 50g of TrailBoss with the 200g SST/smooth Blue Harvester, for about a 1850-1900fps I find that a very firm powder compression, gives the best accuracy/lowest deviation." No pressure signs on primers, and never a blown sabot... QL doesn't have it listed... And you could even start out with 20g and work your way up for safety sake. My offer still stands. Thanks |
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Post by lanenebraska on May 24, 2011 16:03:34 GMT -5
Edge said: "Unless there is something special about this powder 50 grains is a bomb in the making!" There must be something special about this powder, or I am incredibly fortunate  I've been thru 5 cans of TB, and am working on a 5 pound jug now. Somehow my barrel is just fine, primers and sabots are no worse for wear. And I am in no way, trying to max-out any speed. I only know the loads I've been working with. Just saying...it's worth testing, and seems to be more than enough interest from other members as well. Thanks PS I did find this Trail Boss published load for the .458 Win Mag:405 GR. CAST LFP COL: 2.910" Trail Boss 21.0g 1082fps 17,100 CUP Of course this is with a 405g bullet cased Yea, there is something different about this powder! www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Hodgdon%20Basic%20Manual.pdf |
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Post by redpep on May 24, 2011 18:02:40 GMT -5
Edge,
No where did I list the amount of powder I was using. I listed the bullet weight of a 250 gn XTP.
There's is an excellent article on this powder in the 2007 Hodgdon's Annual Reloading Manual by Charles E. Petty.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2011 22:18:28 GMT -5
Lane,
On the IMR site "manufacturers of trail boss" the loads listed for trail boss in a 45/70 gov. with a 300 gr bullet start at 14.0 grains and max load is 16.5 grains with cup at 20,900psi..
The 14 grain load had a cup pressure of 14,400 then with 2.5 more grains it jumps to 20,900. These were in a 24 inch barrel.
50 grains seems to be real high in retrospect to the IMR load data.
Your question really puts pressure traces to the test for safety sake...!!!
Standing by,
Greenhorn
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bigt
Button Buck
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Post by bigt on May 25, 2011 4:51:03 GMT -5
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Post by lanenebraska on May 25, 2011 7:28:58 GMT -5
50g WeightI would expect a pressure trace tester to slowly work up, and stop when pressures arrived at his max safety comfort zone. I've been reloading for years, and this is always the safe course. So, if a tester started with 5-10g TB in a 45cal gun, with a 200g saboted bullet, you could easily discern the properties/pressure indicators. The approximate VOLUME of TB looks like this: 5g Weighed = 15g Volume10g = 30gV15g = 45gV33g = 100gV 50g = 150gVYou can see that the BULK is almost twice that of any other smokeless powder. I don't know exactly WHY it works for me, THAT is why I would like some Actual tests done! I don't own the equipment...I will pay to have it tested. Please PM me if you have the Pressure Trace system
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Post by edge on May 25, 2011 7:37:18 GMT -5
I STAND CORRECTED! According to IMR you can fill up your case: www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdfWhat still makes ZERO sense to me is why do they list 21 grains as a MAXIMUM load when it would not fill the case! It also does not take into account the bullet weight! But if IMR says it is safe I won't argue, and apologize for my error. edge. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 9:55:10 GMT -5
Edge,
Better safe than sorry ,nobody's perfect.
Thanks for watching out for us...!!!
Greenhorn
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Post by lanenebraska on May 25, 2011 13:26:18 GMT -5
Agreed, better safe than sorry. |
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