Munden 45- Swinglock dies

[rkrobson]

I thought I would start a new thread. I got my full form and smooth die in yesterday. I took Parker 275 and 325s and put them through the smooth die, very easy to obtain the same dimension I've been shooting, different setting for each bullet. I took Barnes 300 .458 Socom, actual dia ia .457(not triple shock) and ran them through the full from die as it was set from Swinglock. Hard push, but not as bad as some Barnes Ive sized before. The bullet fit perfectly in my bore, Tom advises some adjusting may be necessary after shooting. I have asked him a lot of questions while waiting for the dies, one specifically about load reduction with a full formed bullet. He said, not usually, and I may have to go up in charge to obtain comparable results as with smooth bullet. Tom said it's advisable to start lower of course. I also full from sized 275 and 327s that are stock as well. My objective is hopefully to shoot all these full form with Blackhorn as it would be impossible to improve smokeless accuracy imo. Ray

[fishhawk]

I don't remember the diameter of the Parkers but do you expect much engraving from the full form die?

[rkrobson]

There is a slight engraving on the 325 and more on the 275 as its .451, I thought I would see if it has anything to offer. Ray

[deadeye]

i would find it interesting approx engraving full form vs. smooth die per same bullet. i would say on my smooth die with a fit that is firm i feel it engraving slightly as its being seated referring to 325be. i'm guessing that a smaller setting on smooth die for 275be than 325be? i have not ran any 275be's yet(through smooth die for setting).

i definetly think smooth die vs. knurling is an improvement es wise & needed in the long range game

rk-keep up the good work!

[rkrobson]

Yes deadeye, a tighter size is needed on the 275. Iam into the new 327s as I had all my 325s already sized. We've had high winds and storm fronts passing through for 10 days straight. I wish I had enough land to dig a tunnel for a 100 yd range, a competition shooter friend of mine in OK did this and would shoot out of his garage. These Swinglock dies are nice and being able to get the exact dimension is easy. Ray

[deadeye]

Mar 27, 2011 9:46:17 GMT -5 rkrobson said:

Yes deadeye, a tighter size is needed on the 275. Iam into the new 327s as I had all my 325s already sized. We've had high winds and storm fronts passing through for 10 days straight. I wish I had enough land to dig a tunnel for a 100 yd range, a competition shooter friend of mine in OK did this and would shoot out of his garage. These Swinglock dies are nice and being able to get the exact dimension is easy. Ray

ray,let me know how the 327's pan out,any difference's & such. i'm now just finishing my old stock of 325's also & entering the 327's.//jeff

ps-i doubt if those high winds are gonna play much with this bullet @ 100yds

[Jon]

Deadeye. I appreciate the time and expense that you put into this. I feel you are advancing smokeless a lot.
Jon

[rkrobson]

I made several trips to a local cinder pit to test full formed sized bullets. The initial bullets I sized seemed loose and shot 1.5" groups in charges of 60grs VV120-2574 fps, 62grs VV120-2612 fps and 64grs VV120-2649 fps. I came back and loaded 3 bullets in three lots of bullets sized 2 hash marks larger on the die for each. I actually reached a point where the bullets would not increase in size, Tom says this is possible. I did go to 66 grs on my 3rd trip today, still 1.5" 4 shot group. Tom told me tonight copper bullets don't have much spring back when sized and take max pressure to shoot accurately. He actually suggest knurling as we already do. Some good news I took 4 FTX 325 grain out and these definitely have spring back as it took several sizing attempts to get a bullet to start after full form sizing. I shot one at 60 gr VV120 and 3 at 66 grVV120, the targets attached, .5". I didn't get to shoot full form 275s and 325s. Without a pressure trace, Iam not sure I will pursue the copper much more, as Iam happy with the 325s smokeless and hopefully the 325 FTX with Bh 209. Some variable winds which had very little effect on the 275s and 325s I shot, but may have spread the SOCOMs groups as they were mostly horizontal, but I don't have any previous experience to say for sure. I have some Barnes 300 SSP Os coming, and these should be great with the full form as well. Tom said knurling a .451-2 bullet(325s) up to .455-6 and then full form sizing them may work with lower charges and blackhorn 209. Ray

[edge]

Very cool....looks like you have a real shooter there.

edge.

[Deleted]

I bet if you load a rock in that gun it will shoot moa,lol.
GH

[rkrobson]

I shot several full form sized 325 gr FTX groups at 66 gr VV120, the one size avg fps 2640 (bottom goup on attached pix) the other group was 1", tighter bullet and 2658 fps. The FTX is a for sure canidate for full from. I shot several sizes of 325 Parker full formed, (two top groups on attached pix) the velocities varied from 2556 to 2645, which may explain the larger groups, 1" or so. I don't expect to improve on my exisiting smooth bullet performance. I got to shoot the 325 FTX full formed with Blackhorn and was a little disappointed. I shot 130gr, 140gr 145gr and 150gr (my loads were actually measured at (.7x throwed amount). From 130-145 grs the velocities would deviate as much as 300 fps in a 3 shot group and groups were 1.5" to 2". At 150 grs velocities were 2262,2285,2293, 2250 fps, showing some consistancy, but were still 1.5". I did have gusty winds. I will adjust the die to max dimension and try again. I shot 3 smooth 275s with Blackhorn just for kicks and got 2357, 2450, 2366 fps in a 1.75" group. From my past experience I may have to knurl to a tight fit to get any of these with Blackhorn to shoot. I'll do that in my Pacnor, not in this gun, as its such a great shooter with smokeless. To sum my thoughts, full form .458 bullets is a great way to go if there is a specific bullet that you want to shoot in the 458 dia. Full form sizing is not a guarantee of automatic success just because you run a bullet through a section of your barrel. Max pressure is still needed to slug up the bullet. I had not one tumbler with the full from sized bullets, even with Blackhorn. 32 rounds total today, thats max for an old man. Ray