j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 5, 2011 19:11:44 GMT -5
Anyone have any experience with this load? The accuracy and speed/power look awesome. Was with a 10ML not a 10ML2 though, would that make any difference? Scroll down and click on "the range" tab on the left. www.sav10ml.com/pages/main.htmMike3132 June 2002 This is a target I shot last June in 68-degree weather with the Savage 10 ML. The load was 60 grains of Lil Gun, Smokeless Muzzleloader Inc. .458/.50 sabot, 300 grain .458 Hornady HP bullet and a CCI 209 M mag primer. The average velocity was 2600 fps = 4504 fpe at the muzzle. The three shot group measured .467 from center to center at 100 yards. The load is real close to .458 Win Mag load and kicked like it too! I shot this group off a Benchmaster rifle rest, which really helped with the recoil. The accuracy of the 10 ML is amazing. |
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Post by shoot2reload on Mar 5, 2011 19:18:12 GMT -5
The more seasoned veterans can feel free to correct me on this, but I believe the issue with Lil' Gun was the powder grain size. My understanding is this: it's small enough that it can migrate into the vent liner and eat it for breakfast.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 5, 2011 19:40:56 GMT -5
Not sure if you pulled out some 9 year old info here....
2600 fps can be had with a 300 grain bullet relatively safely with other powders. It will beat you silly at the bench but can be done safely as far as pressure is concerned.
Powders slightly slower then H4198 will do it (Heck even H4198 will do it) at pressures considered within book limits. I have loads recommended by RB that gave me almost that much speed with 370 gr bullets while remaining safe in terms of pressure....but will rattle your teeth on the bench and test your shoulder assembly.
Lil Gun should be left out of the equation for reasons mentioned. This powder could get you there too as it did for those using it "back in the day". No one was sure what kinds of pressure was being generated and folks were just trying anything without proper testing equipment. Trial by fire. This powder is NOT suited for ML use in trying to gain velocity. There are just Sooo many better, proven, safer choices.
Save it for your .218 bee.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 5, 2011 19:44:27 GMT -5
Not sure if you pulled out some 9 year old info here.... 2600 fps can be had with a 300 grain bullet relatively safely with other powders. It will beat you silly at the bench but can be done safely as far as pressure is concerned. Powders slightly slower then H4198 will do it (Heck even H4198 will do it) at pressures considered within book limits. I have loads recommended by RB that gave me almost that much speed with 370 gr bullets while remaining safe in terms of pressure....but will rattle your teeth on the bench and test your shoulder assembly. Lil Gun should be left out of the equation for reasons mentioned. This powder could get you there too as it did for those using it "back in the day". No one was sure what kinds of pressure was being generated and folks were just trying anything without proper testing equipment. Trial by fire. This powder is NOT suited for ML use in trying to gain velocity. There are just Sooo many better, proven, safer choices. Save it for your .218 bee. Not technically here, but at the top of this page there are some links, it came from the "click here for sav10ml.com" |
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Post by edge on Mar 5, 2011 20:04:56 GMT -5
This was our infancy and we really did not realize the pressures we would get with Lil'Gun.
Lil'Gun is not a bad powder, but it creates high pressure in low doses.
IMO, you should use the powders used today and not those advocated 10 year ago.
edge.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Mar 5, 2011 20:08:58 GMT -5
Back in 2002, even some of our seasoned veterans here were rookies. Things were new and happening fast. Many things have been discovered, realized and proven since then. One of those things has been.....do not use this powder in the Savage. Period.
If you have time, research old threads regarding discussions on this.
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 5, 2011 20:51:13 GMT -5
Back in 2002, even some of our seasoned veterans here were rookies. Things were new and happening fast. Many things have been discovered, realized and proven since then. One of those things has been.....do not use this powder in the Savage. Period. If you have time, research old threads regarding discussions on this. Gotcha |
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Post by jims on Mar 5, 2011 21:16:00 GMT -5
I once shot LilGun. I gave it away to someone with a .410 or a Hornet as I recall. Better powders in use now IMO. I also found it hard on ventliners and dirty as I remember.
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Post by mike3132 on Mar 5, 2011 21:42:17 GMT -5
Please don't use that load!
Please excuse my ignorance back then. Little was known about top end loads or proper powders. We were all learning and experimenting and Im ashamed to admit that load isn't one anyone should shoot today. I wish Randy would remove the load because its way over accepted pressure. Mike
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j1r11
8 Pointer
Posts: 178
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Post by j1r11 on Mar 5, 2011 23:36:07 GMT -5
Please don't use that load! Please excuse my ignorance back then. Little was known about top end loads or proper powders. We were all learning and experimenting and Im ashamed to admit that load isn't one anyone should shoot today. I wish Randy would remove the load because its way over accepted pressure. Mike What load ;D No worries, i will stick with current loads. |
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Post by dans on Mar 6, 2011 10:14:38 GMT -5
That load of Lil Gun was later found to be nearly twice the pressure of commonly accepted higher end loads today. We ate up vent liners with a dozen or so shots. Also the fine grained powder could get behind the vent liner into the breech plug with really bad results. Many including myself shot it during our "need for speed" in the early years of the 10 ml load developement. We used all kinds of materials between the sabot and powder to keep the sabot from failing. This by its self should have told us something. The only thing that saved us was the fact that the Savage Ml was built strong enough to keep us from blowing ourselves up. Today some of the pioneer experimentation spearheaded by the late Rick Bibby, have found powders and loads that can SAFELY reach those same performance levels. Duplexing, triplexing can be done without risking injury. We have reached performance levels that should satisfy even the most adventurous amoung us. However my hat is off to those that continue to experiment. It is this quest for knowledge that keeps smokeless muzzleloading on the cutting edge of technology.
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Post by Jon on Mar 6, 2011 13:20:01 GMT -5
Dans. well put. But it may be suprising what can still be learned.
Jon
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Post by warrior on Mar 6, 2011 17:18:45 GMT -5
Where was this board when we first started !!!! I damaged scope rings and I think my shoulder using way too much of this powder. Listen to these guys !!! Thanks again boys your right on as always !!!!
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