|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 2, 2011 15:18:28 GMT -5
Yesterday was a pretty nice day at the Catawba Valley Wildlife Club in Hickory NC. Weather went from 45* @7:00 a.m. to bout 65* by noon. Some slight right to left wind picked up in the late morning but the use of a couple of good wind flags help keep things in perspective. Last week Edge gave me dig about some Snipers web-site where 10 shot groups were the rule ;D So I figured I would shoot some. As you can see from the photos, there were no 10 shot bug holes. But, there was a predominant consentration........particularly at 100 yards. This triplex I shot at 100 was totally new for me and did not know exactly what to expect. I got away from all the V V powders and substituted other more common ones. The load shot surprisingly well. At 200 yards, I shot another triplex that I had tweaked from last week. It did OK but drifted to the left due to the wind. Still, a load like that would be quite deadly for hunting purposes One of our members had asked me if I ever shot 65 gr. of H-4198 with a 200 gr. bullet? I thought I did but apparently had only loaded the vials but never shot them. Target two has that information. I also wanted to try the 180 gr. XTP which did not shoot well with a higher velocity triplex so I tried it at 54 gr. of H-4198 and the results are on target #1 All in all, just good solid information. Richard   |
|
|
|
Post by killitgrillit on Mar 2, 2011 16:31:40 GMT -5
Richard, you staking or mixing the triplex loads???
|
|
|
|
Post by slipperhead on Mar 2, 2011 17:43:17 GMT -5
Richard, what does "ES" stand for?
GREAT work!
Thx,
Garland
|
|
|
|
Post by deadon on Mar 2, 2011 17:52:37 GMT -5
Richard, what does "ES" stand for? GREAT work! Thx, Garland Extreme Spread as far as velocity goes |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 2, 2011 19:57:19 GMT -5
Killit..............I alway stack them. To do anything else?  Might as well shoot single powders. That is the whole premise of the duplex and triplex............To start the process with the fast powder to "kick" or at least help "obturate" the bullet and then keep the pressure up until it exits the muzzle. The only time I intentionally mixed the powders was for purposes of demonstrating that to do so was not dangerous. It in fact, lowers the velocity from the stacked charge. Slipperhead...........Deadon spelled it out. Extreme Spread in velocity for a given string of shots. The reason why I tend to stress ES rather than SD (standard deviation) is the following: When you are shooting a group..........and particularly at long range as I do in 600 and 1,000 yd. benchrest competition, it is very often the extreme spread in velocity that will open your group vertically. Let me illustrate with this example (or you can run the ballistics on your computer). When I am shooting my 6.5 x .284 improved with a 140 gr. VLD bullet at 2900 fps, a muzzle velocity variation of 25 fps will result in a 3.5" dispersion at 1,000 yards. So lets say out of your five record shots, one of them is going 2925 fps and another 2875 fps and the other three are in between. Discounting all the other variables such as: aiming, wind and mirage, your group will at least be 7" based on the vertical dispersion. Now add in the other factors and you could see how the group gets even bigger. So, by knowing that your bullet/load can keep ES's down below say 20 fps or less (the lower the better) you put yourself in a better position to win the match. Its no different with the ML's at 200 yards and beyond. We are dealing with a bullet who's BC is only 1/3 or less the BC of my 140 gr. VLD with a .625 BC. This is a good reason to be shooting and practicing your loads with a chronograph. The readings help determine why a bullet went where it did. I am not saying the results are cut in stone because the quality of most of our bullets lend themselves to inaccuracy as it is. A low shot at a higher velocity "could" be the result of an inferior bullet. By and large, the higher shot on your target will be the faster bullet. I have found that with 100 yard shooting you can get pretty good groups with bigger ES's due to the fact the bullet is still "pretty fast!" and not doing too much dropping...............as you stretch it out, the velocity differences start to rear their ugly face and vertical becomes more evident. Richard |
|
|
|
Post by shooter on Mar 2, 2011 20:21:07 GMT -5
Nice groups Richard.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 20:33:22 GMT -5
Richard,
I saw where your first shot had higher velocity but shot low. The barrel was clean and cold "like what most hunters hunt with"
Is there anything that can be done about that first shot flier? Especially out at 200 yrds. How much confidence can you really have with a cold clean barrel?Its kinda like a paradox isn't it'.
Awesome groups by the way and I always read anything you post ,
Greenhorn
|
|
|
|
Post by edge on Mar 2, 2011 20:46:18 GMT -5
Not too bad, but I meant a 20 shot group ;D ;D
10 is too much from a ML IMO.
edge.
|
|
|
|
Post by sw on Mar 2, 2011 20:50:12 GMT -5
Richard, I saw where your first shot had higher velocity but shot low. The barrel was clean and cold "like what most hunters hunt with" Is there anything that can be done about that first shot flier? Especially out at 200 yrds. How much confidence can you really have with a cold clean barrel?Its kinda like a paradox isn't it'. Awesome groups by the way and I always read anything you post , Greenhorn Greenhorn, I agree with you, "awesome groups". I don't know if the average 10-ML/2 shooter hunts with a clean barrel. I bet Richard doesn't. Personally, after each shot, I swap the barrel once with a slightly moistened patch( ML cleaner if saboted, Hoppes if sabotless) , then with a dry patch leaving the barrel lightly fouled. It stays this way thru out hunting season. Once it's loaded, it isn't shot again until at a deer, etc, or again at the range. It is never cleaned until after season is over. I don't represent all or necessarily the majority of smokeless MLer shooters. This has worked well for me for 11years. |
|
|
|
Post by jims on Mar 2, 2011 21:23:41 GMT -5
greenhorn: Once I have everything dialed in on a fouled barrel I do like sw and do not clean it until after the season. It has worked well for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on Mar 2, 2011 21:37:56 GMT -5
btw- the 6mmbrx- .186 group is nice too.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jon on Mar 2, 2011 21:44:30 GMT -5
Edge if I remember correctly back a ways you shot a group which as I remember was at least 10 or more and it was one big hole. When I say big I mean everything touching. No flyers?
Jon
|
|
|
|
Post by bigmoose on Mar 3, 2011 8:45:07 GMT -5
At the start of a hunt I pop one or two primers, does that count as a clean or dirty barrel?
I have never fired a 5 shot one group, I have fired a number of three one holers, sometime ago I had a perfect three shoot group going one ragged hole, I decided this was my day for a five shooter, fourth shot in the same hole, I took extra time on the fifth shot, some thing I never due, once I aquire my target I shoot. The fifth shot opened the group up to just under an inch. Moral of the story, unless your Richard, be happy with your three shot group
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 10:43:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the "Keep it Foul" tips guys I'm so used to the Black powder routine of cleaning to keep the corrosion at bay.
Learnin daily,
Greenhorn
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Mar 3, 2011 15:06:45 GMT -5
Greenhorn...............This is sort of why I did the 10 shot groups? Even with a "first shot" flyer, I am confident that ANY one of my shots will at the very least, go into that group. And, it is NOT always the first shot that goes out of the group. In this case, by barrel had not been "seasoned" and was cold. After the first shot I use my cleaning procedure that SW turned me on to a few years back. If I was using the gun for hunting, I would leave the range sighted in and patched as I do between all my shots. And like I mentioned, these pistol bullets are far from the custom bullets I shoot in my match rifles. Believe me, they leave a lot to be desired in the balance, weight and concentricity department. Plus, we are shooting them better than 1,000 fps faster than they were designed for ;D Deadeye.......Thanks! You almost have be shooting under 1/4" at 100 yards to be competitive at 600..........due to all the conditions that take place from 100 to 600.  Oh, and Jon? That nice 10 shot group that Edge shot was with his PVC sabots and .35 cal. RIFLE bullets. Believe me, I shot five of those babies and they WILL shoot bug holes with the right load. (I'm still "hoarding" five I have left ;D) If only we all had access to these custom sabots  Richard |
|
Might as well shoot single powders. That is the whole premise of the duplex and triplex............To start the process with the fast powder to "kick" or at least help "obturate" the bullet and then keep the pressure up until it exits the muzzle. The only time I intentionally mixed the powders was for purposes of demonstrating that to do so was not dangerous. It in fact, lowers the velocity from the stacked charge.
