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Post by 2lapdogs on Feb 13, 2011 11:57:00 GMT -5
I would like to convert my 10ml-II into a small cal squirrel gun. Here were my thoughts and questions....Can I have a gunsmith swap my 50cal barrel for a 30cal barrel with some customization to accept a custom breech plug. I would like to be able to use 22/30 sabots and shoot a .22 cal bullet. These sabots are intended to be seated in a case but I don't see why they wouldn't work for my application?  If this is to far flung then please offer another alternative to having a 10 ml-II modified into a small cal squirrel gun. My motive behind all this is backed by my love for the 10ml-II and my ever growing need to be different.  Here is a link to the 22/30 sabots eabco.com/reload02.html |
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Post by spoonover on Feb 13, 2011 12:03:00 GMT -5
I have some sabots for my 30 cals and never thought of making small game loads for it. Thanks for the heads up.
See no reason why SR4759 15 to 20 grains would not make a dandy load for small game.
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Post by 2lapdogs on Feb 13, 2011 12:06:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the input
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Post by moto357 on Feb 13, 2011 13:05:56 GMT -5
i just went and grabbed one of those gray 30/22 sabots and tried to get it into the 30 cal barrel off my rem.. that was a no go. maybe with a custom sizer and shooting sabotless?
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Post by hunter on Feb 13, 2011 13:26:35 GMT -5
I have not done a build so take my suggestion with a grain of salt. In my opinion You may be better off to mic the sabot bullet combination you want to use and order the barrel with an inside diameter to fit your sabot-bullet diameter, minus a few thousands for normal seating pressure. I am not sure what that few thousands actually is, it may be 2-5 thousands. My 50 cal seems to like in the neighborhood of 3-4 thousands over bore size, the smaller caliber may be different.
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Post by 2lapdogs on Feb 13, 2011 14:36:04 GMT -5
After reading that Moto357's sabot didn't fit a 30cal barrel my thought was also to build the barrel around the sabot.
Thanks for the input guys....still hoping to find someone that has done something like this.
Is there anyone using an in-line, 10ml or not to hunt squirrels?
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Post by joe21a on Feb 13, 2011 14:59:58 GMT -5
The gray 22/30 sabot are very hard plastic. You may have to go the rout the Edge does and cut the rifling groves in them to load and get accuracy. They are made to take a lot of psi in 30-06 and .308 ammo
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Post by dans on Feb 13, 2011 15:08:45 GMT -5
A patched round ball and 9 or 10 grains of Unique will work in a 50.
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Post by moto357 on Feb 13, 2011 15:34:44 GMT -5
what about a .358 barrel, and you have a ton of selection of pistol bullets for your squirrels.. and if you got the itch maybe some rifle bullets too? lee would make a cheap enough sizer to get you to .349 or whatever you went with? just thinking out loud
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Post by DBinNY on Feb 13, 2011 15:43:40 GMT -5
Use the real deal and bark'em ;D
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Post by 2lapdogs on Feb 13, 2011 17:44:14 GMT -5
Use the real deal and bark'em ;D I knew it was only a matter of time before this was suggested..  When I go in the safe and grab a rifle to go squirrel hunting, I don't grab my deer rifle, I grab my Remington 541T 22...and for very good reasons. I would like to apply the same principles to my muzzle loading squirrel hunting, which has not existed thus far. I know Thompson made a 32 cal in-line but didn't they or anyone else make anything smaller? |
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Post by 2lapdogs on Feb 19, 2011 12:25:02 GMT -5
Just thought I would bring this to the top for the weekend croud, still looking for ideas
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 19, 2011 13:28:46 GMT -5
I cant help with a Savage conversion but if you have a Knight rifle, i know where you may find the Green Mountain 32cal "small game" rifle barrels that are based on the DISC Extreme..  They can fire a 46gr PRB from 1200fps to nearly 2000fps with pretty good accuracy. These could drop in an Extreme stock and use most if not all of its parts without modification. |
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Post by 2lapdogs on Feb 19, 2011 17:03:13 GMT -5
I cant help with a Savage conversion but if you have a Knight rifle, i know where you may find the Green Mountain 32cal "small game" rifle barrels that are based on the DISC Extreme.. They can fire a 46gr PRB from 1200fps to nearly 2000fps with pretty good accuracy. These could drop in an Extreme stock and use most if not all of its parts without modification. Thanks....I will keep this is mind if my pipe dreams of converting one of my 10ml-II's doesn't come true. It is a good looking gun tho. I have accepted the fact that using the 22/30 sabots in a ML will not work thanks to Edge and others. I would however still like to put a small cal barrel on it. Any barrel/bullet recommendations? |
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Post by bigmoose on Feb 20, 2011 8:16:36 GMT -5
I'm suprised this post was not moved to the "Big Game" section or better yet the "Dangerous Game" section.
If I wanted to hunt Squirel's I'd contact, Mark Sullivan as my guide. ;D
Bet his 600 NE would drop them with one shot.
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Post by dans on Feb 20, 2011 8:35:49 GMT -5
I have shot squirrels with a 58 cal miniball so I know it can be done. Why not a .45 PacNor loaded down? At this stage of the game you probably will be taking head shots anyway so it should make no difference if the head is completely removed or not. You could probably work out a lower velocity load with a lighter bullet and plenty accurate. You could use the same rifle to shoot big game with using a different load. The pioneers used one rifle around 40 caliber to shoot everything with. The idea of a certain gun or caliber for a certain game animal is fairly modern.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Feb 20, 2011 9:26:44 GMT -5
Get ahold of thos savage-barrel guys... They are willing to try about anything? |
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Feb 20, 2011 10:55:05 GMT -5
I'd say any Caliber we use now would be fine with head shots. It is easy to get great results with a sprinkle of 4759 and hardcast bullets. Obviously, like someone said, you want head shots on small game if you want to eat them. Even a small round ball or bullet doing 2000 fps will ruin a small animal if hit in the midsection.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 20, 2011 11:57:28 GMT -5
Try one of those 30x22 Accelerator sabots in a .311 or larger bore and see if it will start. Any old SKS/AK or even an old British Enfield 303 should give you an idea. Also what OD do the sabot mic out at?
My small game load in my 45s is a MMP blue 45x357 and a 9mm bullet. The 9mm 147gr XTPBT Hornady seems best at very low charges. I use no more than 60gr of BH209 but im sure a small amount of smokeless might work too.
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Post by skennedy on Feb 20, 2011 17:04:11 GMT -5
Do like Danial Boone used to. Use large cal and bark the squirrel. Barking is shooting the tree bark until the squirrel knocking out the squirrel.
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Post by dans on Feb 21, 2011 9:45:00 GMT -5
I have tried to bark squirrels without any success. Have blown them clear out of the tree and they just shake their heads and run off. So I just started shooting their heads off, much more effective.
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Post by 161 on Feb 21, 2011 9:59:34 GMT -5
Interesting project. I'd like to see how it works out.
Warren
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Post by chuck41 on Feb 21, 2011 15:10:07 GMT -5
I put a PacNor 40 cal barrel on my ML10-II to make my squirrel gun. Here is the AR reg relating to same: " Squirrels may not be hunted with rifles or pistols larger than .22 caliber rimfire or with muzzleloaders larger than .40 caliber unless a modern gun or muzzleloading deer season, bear season or coyote season is open."
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Post by spaniel on Feb 22, 2011 20:38:10 GMT -5
I once tried the .50/.308 sabots for the BMG in a regular ML. I had to turn the sabots down with a file and drill press to get them to work, and it was next to impossible to get consistent pressure. Worse yet, most of the .22 bullets you will want to use will likely not stabilize unless you specifically get a fast enough twist.
ML sabots are meant to push down and shoot out. These Accelerator sabots are only made to shoot out.
The other problem I had was that at ML velocities, the bullets did not reliably separate from the sabots. Perhaps with smokeless this would not be an issue.
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Post by spoonover on Feb 22, 2011 22:33:15 GMT -5
Tested 22/30 sabot in a 308 take-off, drilled and threaded breech plug for my Remington switch barrel. Way to much hammering for me, that is some tough plastic.
Found some 115 grain cast lead round nose bullets and gave them a whack with a plastic hammer, ram rod was firm but easy .
Two grains of bulls eye and a 215 mag primer spit it out fine. Hit the 22 bullet trap I have in the basement hard 15 feet away. No ear plugs necessary with this load.
180 grain cast at subsonic would make a fine small game load. I will need come up with some load data and I will give it a try.
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Post by sagittarius on Feb 23, 2011 11:52:40 GMT -5
Kevin Rayhill of Stockade Gun Stocks can build you a ML based on the Savage action in smaller calibers.
Swing-Lock muzzleloaders can build one in small caliber too.
The owner once told me, he could build me one in 7mm caliber.
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Post by Jon on Feb 23, 2011 15:26:08 GMT -5
I'm building a Remington build with a 6.5 bore. All I can say now it is a work in progress. I have one of Tom Posts swaging dies that does a great job on bullet's. I'm currently trying to get 500 brass done for the same head space. And then I have to come up with a powder in the 45+grain range for a 85 grain bullet. Any suggestion's?
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Post by 2lapdogs on Feb 27, 2011 10:36:26 GMT -5
Tested 22/30 sabot in a 308 take-off, drilled and threaded breech plug for my Remington switch barrel. Way to much hammering for me, that is some tough plastic. Found some 115 grain cast lead round nose bullets and gave them a whack with a plastic hammer, ram rod was firm but easy . Two grains of bulls eye and a 215 mag primer spit it out fine. Hit the 22 bullet trap I have in the basement hard 15 feet away. No ear plugs necessary with this load. 180 grain cast at subsonic would make a fine small game load. I will need come up with some load data and I will give it a try. Let me/us know how it turns out. |
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Post by 2lapdogs on Feb 27, 2011 11:32:59 GMT -5
Kevin Rayhill of Stockade Gun Stocks can build you a ML based on the Savage action in smaller calibers. Swing-Lock muzzleloaders can build one in small caliber too. The owner once told me, he could build me one in 7mm caliber. I contacted Swing Lock via email a few days ago. He has a lightly used custom 6.5mm ml that he is putting a new Kriegar barrel on and will sell for $3250. They look real nice and solid and are said to be real shooters but at over 3k I will first try and put a barrel on my spare Savage 10ml-II. I did ask if he would do a build using my Savage but seemed more interested in selling the above gun. Some of his ML's are pushing 4000fps and producing over 5000ftlbs of energy......WOW! His site is full of all kinds of useful info and I love how his ram rod is fully concealed in the stock. Owning one of his custom ML's will be added to my bucket list. |
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Post by Jon on Feb 27, 2011 11:59:57 GMT -5
2lapdogs. I have talked to Tom many times he builds a great weapon. At the time I started my 6.5 project Dougwards had one of Swing Locks. I thought we could compare notes. It is now getting close to the end of a work in progress. Personally I would have been $$$$$ ahead if I had bought one of Tom's. But I'm sure some of you know the feeling of wanting to do it you're self. The bad part is this is something new to me. I am lucky enough to have Doughs and the wealth of knowledge that the people here have. I feel a 85 grain pill at 4000fps could be divesting on small game. Not being a hunter now I'm not aware of the restrictions. I mainly want it for target and just the pleasure of shooting.
Jon
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