Cleaner Powder than AA 5744?

[northny]

First I explored 4227 in my ML II. Now I have probably explored AA 5744 as far as I want to go workiing through a second pound of it. It is accurate enough, but dirtier than I would like to have. After I went to a cooling rod to reduce time between shots I found that my cooling rod became really tight after two shots. Also with each susequent shot, the pressure required for loading required more force. So I began dry swabbing between shots. Using two patches, I only delayed the issues. I have to use four patches after each shot to maintain the barrel at a consistent level of "dirtiness" . Visual of each patch shows the fourth patch almost as dirty as the first patch. The fifth patch is sustantially cleaner.

From an accuracy standpoint, my rifle does seem to like the dry swabbing. I just don't want to do four swabs between shots. (I need some excuse to leave a powder that is working

I am shooting mainly 300 grain bullets (BOs for hunting, Hornady for range work), but will still experiment with a range of .452 diameter 250 grain bullets. I am not yet ready to go to duplex loads, so I looking for a cleaner burning single powder.

What would the brain trust hear recommend?

[dougedwards]

N110 is a very clean burning powder and shoots 300 grainers very well but not to light speed.

[Buckrub]

North, I think one thing I've learned here is that the variance in barrels is immense. What one guy does, doesn't seem to work at all for another.

That said, here's what I started doing after Richard put me onto the cooling rod.

After shooting, I do not swab. I stick the cold rod down the barrel and let it stay maybe a minute.....I never timed it, but it's not long and you can definitely tell by feel of both the barrel and the rod that the heat transfer has occurred......I remove the rod.....and swab ONCE with a dry patch, more to remove moisture than to clean the barrel.

I have some A5744 and some coal soot. I do not know which is dirtier, I'd guess 5744.

I use N120. The one swabbing patch I run down the barrel has some light smudges on it. If I run a 2nd patch down the barrel it is clean. Thus, I quit doing that.

Then I load and shoot and it works like a charm. I tried to find the minimum work/effort/tasks that I could to make each shot 'feel' just right as I loaded it, and this is the routine I came up with. This routine makes each shot load perfectly.....just the right amount of tension with a bullet starter then the ramrod, but not overly difficult. Tight but not too tight, I guess.

I shoot only BO SS 300g, HBCR.

[onecardchuck]

I agree N110 and N120 are very clean burning. I can do a whole range session of 30 to 50 shots and don't bother swabbing.

[mike.dawson]

Ditto on N110 and N120

Mike

[northny]

Buckrub, I hear you on the coal soot. lol. I am trying to get to something like the "Richard Method" (or the "Harley Method" when my gun grows up into a PacNor some day) I just want to get there with less than four patches.

So let me go review the load section and find a reason to pick 'tween N110 and N120 before I make a run over to the gun shop.

[dwhunter]

Ditto on the N110, best I've found.

[edge]

If you can shoot with a clean barrel, then use 1 patch with rubbing alcohol, that is all I ever use. The same patch will last for about 15 shots before it rips, and you only need to add alcohol after about 3-5 shots.

edge.

[northny]

Edge, I will try alcohol wipe once get onto a different powder. The last two range sessions my five to seven shot groups measure 1.75 inch or less. Both days the first shot from clean (unfouled ) barrel was not different than rest of shots from wiped barrel (which even with four patches not as clean as unfouled barrel.). Alcohol wipe is not what I would want to do in hunting situation, but I can try on the range to see what it does punching paper. I this point I suspect this barrel will shoot from a unfouled or slightly dirty barrel to same point. I know that with AA 5744 it does not like a dirty barrel.

[craigf]

Cleaner powder than 5744? All of them besides black powder and pyrodex. I started with 5744 and then went to 4759 and was very happy with the difference.

[jims]

N120 has been the cleanest of the powders I have used.

[Richard]

northny.........That "Richard Method" is not actually richards method I got the idea from Larry who I believe, got it from SW! Its just that I post a lot of "stuff" and always mention it so readers are aware of the way my bullet/sabots fit. Without that method, my loads would be super tight. The same thing with the "Cool Rod". It is Edges thing, just that I got into it, found it worked good and promoted it more so than he. I like to give credit where credit is due.
Richard

[Buckrub]

Richard, I have some credit you can have, if you really want it, then.............. I've used it way too much it seems!

[12ptdroptine]

How does N110 stack up as far as ignition in cold or damp weather? And also ..How does 4198 compare to these? I have 5744 and 4759..But feel I can improve on these...But then again maybe not. Plus I have found a 2lb jug of the N110 on a shelf in a nearby shop.How is the shelf life on this stuff? I dont know how long it has been there. I considered the N120 ,,But hear that it has some ignition issue's in cold weather. Drop

[jims]

12ptdroptine: If that powder was kept in reasonable temperatures and not in direct sunlight IMO it will last longer than most of us on this board. I have some 4350 that is over 40 years old that fired well last year. Not much left and I do not use it much obviously but have kept it and occasionally load a few to try.

[northny]

Richard, you are a gentleman to correct my mistake and share the credit. To anyone I should have provided credit to , my apologies. I am still a newbie here as far as knowing all the history.

[Deleted]

110 & 120 burn very clean, but you get better speed with 4198 & RL7, they are not as clean but not as bad as 5744, I think you would be happy with either^^^^^^.......Bill

[12ptdroptine]

It seems that most I have read about 4198 leans it towards a pretty good all around powder.. I think I will pick up a jug of this to ad to my arsenal in the next couple day's.. However I am at somewhat of a standstill right now.. I dont feel my Tupperware stock is all that it need's to be. Richard pm'd me with a how to fix for it. And I question not his wisdom. I am wanting a laminate stock as soon as I can penny up the fund's for it..And know that I will want to pillar and bed it, So I guess I am procrastinating here as what to do.... Drop

[mshm99]

I was using n-110 in 44mag and .357 mag sometime before I got the MLII in January '02. It is excellent in those applications and for 250 grain class of bullets in the MLII. I guess I did not give H-4198 a fair try , but it did not work out for me as quickly as I expected. I'm burning the H-4198 up in a my 45-70 and it does ok, but I'm willing to bet N-120 will do better and I'm slowly moving in that direction.

I'm sold on VV powders. Pretty much use it in every thing from .38 special to 30-06.

mshm

[jeremylong]

Mar 3, 2009 18:00:10 GMT -5 mshm99 said:

I was using n-110 in 44mag and .357 mag sometime before I got the MLII in January '02. It is excellent in those applications and for 250 grain class of bullets in the MLII. I guess I did not give H-4198 a fair try , but it did not work out for me as quickly as I expected. I'm burning the H-4198 up in a my 45-70 and it does ok, but I'm willing to bet N-120 will do better and I'm slowly moving in that direction.

VV powders. Pretty much use it in every thing from .38 special to 30-06.

mshm

I have had good luck with them too. The only pain for me is getting it.

[twister]

The load I use for deer hunting is 45 grains 5744 250 grain Barnes expander and a number 12 mmp sabot.I don't swab between shots because I was trying to duplicate real field conditions as the Savage is my number one hunting tool.It is a little dirty,but in my barrel it has been extremely accurate.It's not real fast.Around 2000 fps,but it kills very well.The big reason I choice this load is I demand 100% reliability in my rifle.My research revealed that this powder is very reliable for ignition in cold conditions.So far it has not let me down.I use a Leupold ultimate slam scope with range compensating cross hair that makes the velocity a minor issue.As has been said many times the Savages all are a little different,but thats what has worked well for me.Twister

[chuck41]

I used 4759 and it seems to be a pretty clean choice to me. Never had any N110 or 120 so can't compare, but Edge's procedure with the alcohol swab worked well with 4759. Pretty clean burning just leaves a bit of evidence on the patch. I usually only used the same patch twice, turning it over after the first use, but could have used it more I guess.

[sagittarius]

I used 5744 in my Savage barrel and each sabot became progressively harder to load.
Of course, it didn't matter as my barrel wouldn't shoot anyway.

[northny]

sag- that is why I started swabbing between shots, (each one bullet became harder to load.) When I do swab it clean (4 runs down and up with clean patch surface each time), the effort to load was consistent, and the groups were better. I just don't want to have to swab that much so will switch powder.

[meltaylor]

I have used the same method as Edge for several years with the same results. Only difference is that I carry a small bottle of Denatured Alcohol (available at the local hardware store) in my gear box. It contains less water than rubbing alky and seems to work a little better for me.

Mel