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Post by hoz on Jan 23, 2011 19:08:49 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
I am new here, and got bit by the custom .45 bug. I am going to have one built. I have a SS Rem 700ml I am going to convert. I am planning on having hunter retro the bolt and order a Savage BP. I was just wondering if anyone had some advice as far as barrel specs? Would like to go with a McGowen barrel. Seems like 1 in 22 twist is popular and 25", but what is the best contour and why? Still learning guys, sorry if this has been hashed out before. Thanks for any info for this newbie.
Rob
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Post by Al on Jan 23, 2011 19:48:43 GMT -5
I just sent Pacnor a old 700ML barrel for them to copy the contour so the guys could use the same stock. Give me a couple of weeks and I'll have one I can send to McGowen if they want to copy it.
All of my builds were with #5 contours, just trying to keep the weight down.
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Post by mike.dawson on Jan 23, 2011 20:28:00 GMT -5
I am sending them my 700ml barrel so they will have a barrel to copy. Is the 700ml barrel contour stronger enough for a smokeless build? I was going to have them do a PacNor #7 contour but it would be nice to use the same stock that the 700ml came in.
Mike
Mike
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Post by nctta on Jan 23, 2011 21:52:17 GMT -5
Well PacNor ought to have plenty stock 700ml barrels to contour from....they got mine last week to make me 2 from
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Post by smokeless77 on Jan 24, 2011 1:49:04 GMT -5
If you take the barrel down to the 700 M/l contour will you loose any of the safety factor of what the barrel was actually rated for ?
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Post by Al on Jan 24, 2011 3:53:23 GMT -5
The factory barrel is .810ish straight from the muzzle to the just past the rear sight, then has the typical looking Remington taper to 1.190ish.
Myself??? I wouldn't have no reservations with the ML contour based on the pressure readings I've been following.
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 24, 2011 16:25:00 GMT -5
The Remington ML contour IMO is a bit on the light side. The #5 is nice but could use some more in the critical area which seems to be about 5" in front of the breechplug.
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Post by hoz on Jan 24, 2011 17:10:10 GMT -5
Rossman,
What contour do you recommend?
Thanks
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Post by dannoboone on Jan 24, 2011 18:45:35 GMT -5
Rob, if you go a McGowen barrel route, it may be better to get a
1:18, as they are 8 groove, whereas their 1:22 twist is only 6
groove. Eight groove would give more support for a sabot as well
as better indexing 4-petal sabots.
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Post by mike.dawson on Jan 24, 2011 18:56:08 GMT -5
Ordered my 45 cal McGowen barrel today, PacNor #7 contour, they were sent the action, bolt with Hunter's conversion,and the barrel, new 3/16 recoil lug without the hole for a ram rod, they are doing 8 groove, 1:22 twist, chrome molly fluted. 11 degree crown. It will be black ice coated after it comes back to me, 4-5 weeks and a whole lot less money than PacNor, a lot less!!!!
Mike
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Post by dannoboone on Jan 24, 2011 20:28:57 GMT -5
Mike, are you certain that their 1:22 twist barrel is an 8 groove
barrel?? It was my understanding that the 1:22 barrel is 6 groove
with McGowen barrels?!?!
That's why I ordered the 1:18 because it is the 8 groove barrel.
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Post by hoz on Jan 24, 2011 20:40:30 GMT -5
Mike,
Where did you get the 3/16 recoil lug? What are on the 700ml's now?
Thanks, Rob
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Post by fishhawk on Jan 24, 2011 21:51:15 GMT -5
Hoz, The stock 700ML recoil lug is 3/16". The design of the Pacnor is set up for a 3/16 so the breechplug tip is beyond the barrel threads for strength. I can only assume that Mike is getting Mc Gowan to do the same. I don't know where Mike got his, mine are Callahan .186 (3/16) from Midway. The stock one has straight sides which make bedding tougher. It also has a slot cut in the middle for the ramrod to slide through. Good idea to replace it.
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Post by mike.dawson on Jan 25, 2011 6:39:41 GMT -5
Rob, I ordered it from Midway, it is the Callahan, I spoke to the Dan Wynne at McGowen and they in fact do 8 groove , 1:22 twist that was the one ordered.
Mike
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Post by mike.dawson on Jan 25, 2011 16:07:30 GMT -5
they do not offer a 45 cal rifle barrel with 8 groove and 1:22 twist, my bad, so I ordered a 8 groove 1:18 twist, just checked with them
Mike
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Post by hoz on Jan 25, 2011 16:57:38 GMT -5
Whats the reason for replacing the stock recoil lug, easier bedding?
Rob
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Post by fishhawk on Jan 25, 2011 17:09:50 GMT -5
Easier bedding and more surface area to contact the bedding by not having the slot.
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 26, 2011 1:07:32 GMT -5
The #5 is fairly light but sacrifices meat in the critical area. The critical area, from all the bulges and the few blow-ups, appears to be about 5" from the breech end. The Light Palma puts more meat in that area. The #7 contour is pretty heavy so if your going to stretch the envelope that would be good choice. A good compromise would be to take the #5 contour and stretch the "D" dimension from 3" to 6" and the "E" from 6" to 9". This would add about 8oz to the #5 weight but still be a tad lighter then a Light Palma and about 24oz lighter then a #7. A plus would be that if you did somehow bulge the barrel you have enough shank to cut 3" off and still have a usable barrel.  |
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Post by smokeless77 on Jan 26, 2011 19:05:01 GMT -5
What would the extra charge be for a custom contour from pacnor.
John
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 26, 2011 23:59:18 GMT -5
about $30
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Post by nctta on Jan 28, 2011 18:54:14 GMT -5
Pacnor told me today the 700 ml contour is perfectly safe......not my thoughts, but Pac Nor's
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Post by excisac on Jan 28, 2011 21:01:27 GMT -5
Pacnor told me today the 700 ml contour is perfectly safe......not my thoughts, but Pac Nor's The 700ml contour might be perfectly safe but we should remember it was designed for black powder or black powder substitutes. Perfectly safe for black powder or perfectly safe for smokeless are not the same. |
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Post by fishhawk on Jan 28, 2011 22:27:16 GMT -5
I was just looking at using Rossmans recommended custom contour on a factory 700ML synthetic. The farthest the D dimension will stay in the channel with 1.20" as the A dimension is about 4.5". Even then it might look a little weird in that stock. My thought after measuring on the stock is a #6 sporter with possibly bringing the B dimension to 1.00- 1.05".
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Post by nctta on Jan 29, 2011 18:30:55 GMT -5
Pacnor said it was perfectly safe for smokeless....
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Post by smokeless77 on Jan 29, 2011 21:23:19 GMT -5
Does Pacnor have any psi rating on there barrels?
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 30, 2011 0:07:10 GMT -5
It should be safe but would it survive, or at least not rupture/burst, with a double load or leaving your ramrod in. That is a safety margin which several factory Savage barrels have survived, some without any damage. It is the difference between a incident and a disaster. IMO You also have to remember that with the ML your peak pressure happens when the bullet is farther down the barrel due to no case crimp and less resistance from the sabot or the pre-engraved bullet when shooting sabotless.
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Post by edge on Jan 30, 2011 11:23:38 GMT -5
Personally I would pick a contour for a 45-70 Levergun and add the difference between the cartridge and the BP.
So if you look at the barrel sketch that rossman40 posted earlier and find the "D" dimension for a Levergun 45-70.
The Savage plug extends to about 1 3/4 from the end of the barrel.
This is very close to where the bullet starts in a 45-70 cased load.
Therefore I would add 1 3/4 to the minimum "D" dimension and then you would be assured that you have a barrel designed for nearly the same pressures.
If you wanted more security then pick a barrel contour for a 45-70 Modern rifle or for a 458 win mag or Lott.
edge.
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Post by moto357 on Jan 30, 2011 11:34:57 GMT -5
just to add my experience with Pac Nor, since i ordered a straight taper they did not charge me any extra for the change in dimensions. i had them put my "D" dimension to 5" and i came up with this after measuring a 45/70 barrel i had on hand and it was 3 1/2" before the taper began. my rem breech plug is not 1.5" but im going for beefy with this build  |
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 30, 2011 23:29:17 GMT -5
IMO stretching out the "D" measurement even with the #7 Pacnor contour is good insurance. To me it is a balancing act for a hunting rifle. While you want light weight you have to throw in safety factor, barrel rigidity and even the balance of the completed rifle. On the bench bigger is better but your not lugging it around.
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