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Post by big10pointer on Jan 17, 2011 20:10:49 GMT -5
 I need help or another ML.savml blued tupperware stock.clearanced stock from barrel,weaver steel bases mounted them again to make sure,Millet rings Ive used leupold vx II 3-9x40 and a leupold vx III 3.5-10x40 which was fresh from leupold repair shop and shot .5 moa on 300WM.I have used 5744, n110 lil gun and h322.I have shot 250gr htp in mmp sabot, 300gr barnes in orange mmp, several prb dead center bullets.None of them will shoot better than 3" 3 shot group.Some groups will have 2 really close then one way off 6-8" mostly horizontal stringing.This is driving me nuts I have owned it for a little over a year. At this rate I will be Bow hunting during Muzzleloader season.
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Post by dennis31 on Jan 17, 2011 20:30:22 GMT -5
Ive been there myself. First check front scope base to make sure not touching recoil lug. take out breech plug make sure vent liner hole is smaller than .036. remove vent liner and from primer side of breech plug run 5/32 drill bit to clean out cabon build up.wait 10 to 15 min between shots before loading.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jan 17, 2011 20:37:47 GMT -5
Ive been there myself. First check front scope base to make sure not touching recoil lug. take out breech plug make sure vent liner hole is smaller than .036. remove vent liner and from primer side of breech plug run 5/32 drill bit to clean out cabon build up.wait 10 to 15 min between shots before loading. And go to the tips and tricks section..Read all there and then get yourself a cooling rod..... Lot's of us have been there.... Some of us couldnt get them to shoot..and went with a custom barrel....shouldnt have had to though. drop |
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Post by ADMINISTRATOR on Jan 17, 2011 20:46:41 GMT -5
I need help or another ML.savml blued tupperware stock.clearanced stock from barrel,weaver steel bases mounted them again to make sure,Millet rings Ive used leupold vx II 3-9x40 and a leupold vx III 3.5-10x40 which was fresh from leupold repair shop and shot .5 moa on 300WM.I have used 5744, n110 lil gun and h322.I have shot 250gr htp in mmp sabot, 300gr barnes in orange mmp, several prb dead center bullets.None of them will shoot better than 3" 3 shot group.Some groups will have 2 really close then one way off 6-8" mostly horizontal stringing.This is driving me nuts I have owned it for a little over a year. At this rate I will be Bow hunting during Muzzleloader season. Check the scope base mounting screws and see if the front one is bottoming out before tight and check the front base and make sure its not riding up on the recoil lug. If the screw bottoms out, grind a little off, if the base is riding up on the lug, grind off the base. If you get two close and a flier, take a least 10 min between shots and ditch the Lil Gun. What primers you using? Win, Fed 209A and CCI 209 M are the most common used. Mike |
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Post by fishhawk on Jan 17, 2011 21:25:47 GMT -5
Don't know if this has anything to do with your problem or not, if the Millet rings are the "angle lock" type I've seen many problems with these holding. I've seen damage to bases from the recoil tab because they wouldn't stay put.
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Post by big10pointer on Jan 17, 2011 23:03:30 GMT -5
I wat atleast 10 minutes between shots and use cooling rod.I'm using win 209 primers.I remounted the scope bases and checked for too long screws.also bases aren't touching front lug.Cleaned the gun and breach plug replaced the vent liner.How do you check a vent liner?Still won't shoot.I have already read the hints and much more some of it more than once and alot of it I printed out.Don't know what to do.Could this gun kill a leupold vx III in 50 shots?
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 17, 2011 23:23:50 GMT -5
I've seen one kill a NIB 4-16x Zeiss Conquest in less then 10 shots. After shooting the Lil'gun I would check your vent for sure.
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Post by mike3132 on Jan 17, 2011 23:26:48 GMT -5
try 43.0 45.0 grain of 5744 and a 300 xtp and she how it shoots. One of those loads should be 2" or better @100 yards. If not then something is amiss. Mike
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Post by mike3132 on Jan 17, 2011 23:27:40 GMT -5
Yes, change the ventliner! Mike
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Post by dans on Jan 17, 2011 23:32:16 GMT -5
Vent liners are cheap. Put in a new one. Lil Gun ate vent liners for me in less than 20 shots. Try a different sabot with those 250 XTPs. The sabot/bullet combo should load with about 40 pounds or so pressure. Too loose or too tight and accuracy suffers. Have another shooter of known ability shoot your gun and see what happens. Not doubting your ability but sometimes we get to questioning ourselves. Get some J&B compound and put 200 strokes on that barrel with a tight fitting patch, cleaning after every 50 strokes. Then try it again. make sure you have a good rest.
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Post by esshup on Jan 17, 2011 23:38:22 GMT -5
MMP makes a few different sabots. Are you using the short petal black ones? Also, try indexing the sabot (always put one petal at 12:00 for instance).
I don't know what your loading procedure is, but don't load the gun and then lit it sit to cool down. Let it cool first if you aren't doing so.
Try 5744 or IMR 4759, those usually are "go to" powders for standard velocities.
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 18, 2011 0:26:30 GMT -5
Another thing is since you have a synthetic stock and are experiencing vertical stringing, where are you resting on the forearm when shooting from the bench? Bring your front rest back closer to just in front of the front action screw and see if that helps.
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Post by iowamuzzleloader on Jan 18, 2011 2:43:13 GMT -5
And speaking of the front action screw, is it torqued correctly. Probably is. often the "go to" powders don't necessarily like the bullet and sabot you are using. For me it was the breach plug and needed to be drilled out. then I switched powders and bullets and sabots. now have a 300 yard gun. I like 60gn of Vitavouri N120 with a Harvester crush rib sabot and a Barnes original Spitzer 300gn bullet. Many here do too. You will figure it out!
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Post by youp50 on Jan 18, 2011 5:31:34 GMT -5
If you do the scope mount checks, scope check, and a few different sabot/bullet combinations and still have horizontal stringing. Don't forget to keep the barrel cool. It is time to suspect the stock to action fit.
If you can still keep two together before a flier you probably do not have a scope problem. I have had my ML eat a couple of scopes and the accuracy does not get better.
My way of thinking is horizontal stringing is very often corrected by bedding the action. And fill that magazine well while you are messing with it.
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Post by mike.dawson on Jan 18, 2011 7:16:23 GMT -5
Put the iron sights back on if they have been removed, take off the scope and see what happens when shooting one of the savage base loads. This would remove the scope from the issues, it is winter time 10 minutes between shoots should be plenty
Mike
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Post by big10pointer on Jan 18, 2011 8:00:39 GMT -5
Thanks for all of the replies. I have used the go to loads with short black mmp sabots and 250gr xtp 44 gr 5744 won't shoot better than 3.5 moa.I'm going to put the Iron sights back on and try that also drill breach plug and use go to loads.I don't have a inch pounds torque wrench how important is this front lug I've been doing it with short end of allen key?
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Post by fowlplay on Jan 18, 2011 9:14:29 GMT -5
Thanks for all of the replies. I have used the go to loads with short black mmp sabots and 250gr xtp 44 gr 5744 won't shoot better than 3.5 moa.I'm going to put the Iron sights back on and try that also drill breach plug and use go to loads.I don't have a inch pounds torque wrench how important is this front lug I've been doing it with short end of allen key? As long as you are not over tightening the action screws you should be fine. Great advice has been giving here. Sabot fit is very important for group size. You do not want a loose fit. With MMp sabots I use to shoot a 3'' group with 300XTP. I switched to Harvester short black sabots and my group immediately shrunk to half. The same has happened to other bullets I have shot. You have to find out what your gun likes after all the other trouble shooting variables been eliminated. |
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Post by northny on Jan 18, 2011 12:49:55 GMT -5
+1 on Rossman40's comment on bringing the front rest underneath the receiver. On my two synthetic stocks it made all the difference. (why I replaced the stocks). I put mine right under the recoil lug.
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Post by dennis31 on Jan 18, 2011 13:43:13 GMT -5
my gun didnt care for mmp sabots either, shot tighter groups with harvester crush ribs.
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Post by big10pointer on Jan 18, 2011 15:02:29 GMT -5
Ok I check my breech plug it was full almost down to vent liner size.I guess lil gun did this and quick I only fired 36 shot since full cleaning.I hope this fixes it.How do you check the size of vent liner hole and what is too big .035?I will shoot it tomorrow to check.I'm praying that this works.I'm getting tired of shooting paper I would like to shoot a few deer with it in our urban late season.
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Post by rossman40 on Jan 18, 2011 15:21:57 GMT -5
A quick thing is to find some paper clips or raid your wife's sewing box for pins or needles that are like .035". If a .035" pin fits in the vent, pitch it.
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Post by dennis31 on Jan 18, 2011 16:03:58 GMT -5
go to home depot to where the welding stuff is pick up a lincoln electric tip cleaner $2.49, start at the largest and the sixth one in is .035.
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Post by mdgroundhogger on Jan 18, 2011 20:21:07 GMT -5
My Savage did the same things at first  . The waiting in between shots and drilling the breechplug seemed to help the most. I glass bedded my stock, shaved my front scope mount off the recoil lug, torqued everything front to back each time and tossed my ventliners after about every 40 shots regardless of condition. This practice along with making sure I held the gun the same for each and every shot helped me zero in on what "MY" gun liked. I found that 41gr of 5744 w/250gr SST's, short MMP sabots and Winchester 209 primers shot about 1.5" 5shot groups at 100yrds. Stick with it your gun will tell you what it likes. |
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Post by contender on Jan 18, 2011 21:24:18 GMT -5
Mine never shot worth a toot with 5744 and I was sorry I ever bought it.
Switched to SR4759 and the gun came to life and started shooting very good groups.
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Post by tasaman on Jan 19, 2011 0:16:43 GMT -5
My experience was nearly identical to contenders. My gun never shot well with 5744 so I switched to SR4759 and things tightened right up to just over 1 inch groups.
I also had to clearance the front sight base off the recoil lug and shave the front screw in the front sight base. Once the powder and minor things were fixed my gun became very consistent.
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Post by big10pointer on Jan 19, 2011 18:41:01 GMT -5
Yee Haa! 45gr 5744 300gr BO 1.125 moa at 100yds.Man the gun is sensative to the way you grip it.Thanks for all of the help!!!
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Post by DBinNY on Jan 19, 2011 22:42:53 GMT -5
Congratulations. Looks like you have arrived.
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Post by dans on Jan 21, 2011 18:18:38 GMT -5
Now go out and make some meat! Ya Know, its almost too good. If ya miss, you'll have to look in the mirror to find out why.
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Post by mdgroundhogger on Jan 21, 2011 23:59:18 GMT -5
Congrats!!! ;D
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Post by morgan1109 on Jan 22, 2011 0:07:01 GMT -5
Lots of good suggestions here. I'm glad you got it figured out.
I had to go through most of them the first 10 trips to the range. What finally got my groupings where i wanted was breaking down and buying the expensive barnes orignal semi-spitzer .458 bullets (300 gr). Got me from 2 1/2 inch groups down to 1 1/2 inch groups. Them some nice gentlemen (sorry don't rememebr) sent me a variety of harvester sabots (3 or 4 varieties). That got me down to right around an inch when i don't get get excited and yank the trigger.
Took 15-20 trips to the range to finally get it dialed in. You got it figured out alot quicker than i did:)
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I need help or another ML.savml blued tupperware stock.clearanced stock from barrel,weaver steel bases mounted them again to make sure,Millet rings Ive used leupold vx II 3-9x40 and a leupold vx III 3.5-10x40 which was fresh from leupold repair shop and shot .5 moa on 300WM.I have used 5744, n110 lil gun and h322.I have shot 250gr htp in mmp sabot, 300gr barnes in orange mmp, several prb dead center bullets.None of them will shoot better than 3" 3 shot group.Some groups will have 2 really close then one way off 6-8" mostly horizontal stringing.This is driving me nuts I have owned it for a little over a year. At this rate I will be Bow hunting during Muzzleloader season.
. The waiting in between shots and drilling the breechplug seemed to help the most. I glass bedded my stock, shaved my front scope mount off the recoil lug, torqued everything front to back each time and tossed my ventliners after about every 40 shots regardless of condition. This practice along with making sure I held the gun the same for each and every shot helped me zero in on what "MY" gun liked. I found that 41gr of 5744 w/250gr SST's, short MMP sabots and Winchester 209 primers shot about 1.5" 5shot groups at 100yrds. Stick with it your gun will tell you what it likes.