Rem 700ML converted for Blackhorn 209?

[ratsnakeboogy]

Sorry if this is in the wrong place.

I just want to convert my Rem 700ML .45 to be reliable with BH209, I'm not ready for the smokeless just yet.

I have looked into Hunter's conversion, but the .45 conversion is more than the .50, and with everything done I'm looking at $140. Add to that savage shutting down production, will the breech plugs be available? Is there another option other than Hunter's?

I would like to add a Bell&Carlson stock, but I don't want a cumbersome varmint stock, this is a carry gun, not a stand gun. I also need to figure out how to add the ramrod hole.

Can someone explain upgrading the front trigger guard screw to a third pillar?

Any help would be appreciated, I'm new to this and operating on a limited budget.

Thanks,

Don

[fishhawk]

Hunter makes a bolt nose kit that are used for smokeless barrel conversions. I know he also does parts to stop the blowback on non smokeless 700ML's. I'm not sure if they are related or not. Hunter would be the best to talk with about your options if you haven't already. As far as the front trigger guard screw being pillared there are two options. The first that I know that Rossman does is weld up the back edge of the existing 8-32 hole to bring the area around the screw hole and file even, then drill and tap the hole 1/4-28. The second method I use is mill the angled area above the threads open to a few thousandths over 1/4", then drill and tap the hole to 1/4-28. Brownells sells stainless and blue rear trigger guard screws that can be trimmed a few threads to the proper length. The front trigger guard hole can be opened up and countersunk to fit the larger screw head.

[johnp034]

What conversion do you need to shoot BH209? As long as your rifle fires 209 primers, you should be in business.

[screwbolts]

With the Rem 700ML action, Why do you want the third Pillar?

In a Savage ML it is used because the rear screw is used to remove the bolt. on the Rem the front and back screws are not removed/loosened to remove the bolt. there is a bolt stop screw on the side of the receiver.

The definition of a straight line is, a line between 2 points. it is impossible for there to be 3 points in a straight line.

I believe the breech plugs are the same in all 700mls regardless of bore size. I do not understand why the Hunter kit is more for a .45.

John, most 209 conversions for the 700ml are still slam fire vented systems, they are not compatible with BH209.

Ken

[hunter]

The nose in front of the threads on the 45 breach plug is smaller than the 50 cal. so a 50 cal plug will not screw in a 45 barrel. If I take the plug to the shop to get one turned down he charges me 20.00.
Since there are not many 45 cal 700ml's around, that I am aware of, I can not have him make a run of 30 or more to get the price down with the 50 cal kits. If a customer can do the lathe work himself to turn down the plug nose, they can use the 50 cal. kit.

Fred

[ratsnakeboogy]

Fred, I'm not complaining, I just wanted to know what options were available. There are many .45 700MLS's out there though, and people pay through the nose when they find them.

The third pillar was just something I had heard of others doing, if it's not needed then so much the better.

Any info on how long the Savage BP will be made, and I'm assuming with the Hunter Kit if I need a new plug it will have to be specially turned down again?

Thanks for the input.

[screwbolts]

Hunter are you saying that the stock 45 cal Remington Breech plug is different than the 50 and 54?

Or are you saying the Hunter supplied breech plug is different?

Ken

[rossman40]

The third pillar conversion/modification I do is not a "must do" mod. If you do decide to go that route you can get by without welding but then your bolt length is critical. Since the front trigger guard screw goes into the slot milled for the trigger you will not have a lot of threads. Also if your sticking with the factory barrel (which is pretty light) you may not gain much in accuracy. Now if your putting a heavy contour barrel on and pushing to the max then you would gain with the third action pillar/screw. It is one of those things if your scrapping for every tad of accuracy.

I didn't come up with the idea, I have seen custom shop 40Xs with them and some of the custom 700 actions like BAT have been doing it for years. One of the custom ML builders also plug it.

[ratsnakeboogy]

I don't think I will need the 3rd pillar, I need to start out slow. I just want to upgrade the firing mechanism, and put a better stock on it.

I don't want to go smokeless just yet, just optimize for Blackhorn 209.

[hunter]

Screwbolts,
The factory plugs are all the same and the shoulder is at the end of the factory plug.
Our plug was made longer to accommadate a ventliner and also a longer pressure column inside the plug to help handle the back pressure. The longer nose of the plug is necked down and extends up into the barrel further and in this area is where the cal. difference comes into play.

[ratsnakeboogy]

One more question, do you think a Rem700MLS in .45 could have the "chamber" re-cut to accept the Lehigh breechplug for the Knight Disc rifle? That plug is supposed to seal of almost all blow-by, and is optimized for BH209. Downside I guess would be I couldn't use Hunter's conversion, or could I?

[hunter]

Ratsnakeboogy,
I would like a little feedback on your thoughts of the 45 cal interest in these conversions.
If I were to get 6 to 8 turned down at once I could probably get them done for 1/2 the cost.
When he run the others I paid him extra to make me 4 plugs for the 45 since I had one and wanted a extra. I have sold the other 2 plugs and he perfers to turn the 50's down rather than set up to run new plugs unless I want a large quanity.

[ratsnakeboogy]

Hunter, my feedback is as follows and no offense intended to you or your smith. There are a lot of .45 700Mls's out there especially in the South where I am. The .45 really took off here when it was introduced. I used to be able to find them easily and pick them up for $175-$225, but now if you find a .45 700MLS you are starting at $400 and people still pay the price. I have been lucky enough to aquire 2, one I am going to keep for BH209, the other I will build a smokeless with on down the road some.

My hesitation with your kit is 3-fold, 1. I can't stand paying more for something in .45 than I would in .50. I understand the explanation, but it rubs me wrong.

2. I worry about the availability of the Savage BP in the next 10 years, that may be unwarranted, but it's still a hurdle.

3. I know many people that would jump at spending $90 to upgrade their 700 ML, but after the extra money to have it actually installed in the bolt you get to $120-$140, and it becomes out of reach for many. I think I can install it myself, but I don't know if I'm willing to risk $110-$120 to find out I couldn't and screw it up.

Once again, the product looks awesome and I'm sure it works as good as it looks. I mean no offense, and I don't like making people angry at me, the above is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions. I definently don't want to step on toes, because everyone on this site has been nothing but nice and helpful. I do think if you could figure out a way to streamline production and bring down overhead on installation, you would sell a ton more. There are many like myself who just want reliablity with BH209, not necessarily wanting to go smokeless just yet.

Take it for what it's worth, and I apologize in advance.

Don

[fishhawk]

There are two reasons I do the third pillar. One is the action is nearly 8" long and the existing 1/4-28 action screws are 6.5" apart. I and others like making the front trigger guard screw help in action support. The second is without a pillar or a fixture to attach the front of the guard the screw compresses the stock and pulls down on the center of the action with nothing to stop action flex. Yes the screw is only an 8-32, how much stess can it cause? Is it needed? Maybe not, but as I build any gun I correct what I don't like.

[screwbolts]

Thank you Hunter, for the explanation.