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Post by dave d. on Feb 5, 2011 20:06:14 GMT -5
:)ken this is a custom barrel what don't you get? the fact that you are trying to discount my reputation as a moderator is got me laughing ;D. I've been more then helpful with everyone on this forum and would never suggest doing something unsafe. The biggest problem with most plugs are the fact they have no vent liner which these plugs will have(Rick bibby god bless his soul would tell you the same). So again if you are not interested in one of these conversions go hijack another thread because all your statements are not valid and your not comparing apples to apples. Thank-you  |
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Post by screwbolts on Feb 6, 2011 7:34:18 GMT -5
Dave, what I get is that you are discussing and promoting the use of a non approved - non extended nose breech plug in a smokeless riffle build, This is in my opinion an unsafe setup because of the non extended nose.
RB made many fine custom rifles and many included his custom breech plugs that he made from 5/8-18 Grade 8 bolts, They all included the extended nose feature to move the powder charge farther down the bore away from the machined cavity that holds the Breech Plug.
I believe it is a clear safety issue, of a large diameter breech plug in a small 1" barrel with no extended nose on the breech plug. The scope mount holes may also be drilled and taped into the thinnest are of this custom rifle barrel further weakening the breech plug area.
I will not in your opinion hi jack this thread any more. :-)
Ken
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Feb 6, 2011 7:39:14 GMT -5
Ken,
You make great bullets..and I mean great! But you have really stuffed your foot all the way in your mouth on this one. Maybe even down your throat. I hope you have a big pry bar.
You did a ton of research to make your point....but missed the entire point at the same time.
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Post by wilmsmeyer on Feb 6, 2011 8:03:43 GMT -5
One other point....folks who are following this thread shouldn't be misled.
TC's encore is a "platform". If they made a .458 win mag barrel (and they might) it could be put on the "platform"
With that train of thought, a properly designed barrel/breech plug can also be put on the platform.
So to say that TC doesn't recommend smokeless powder in their firearms as part of the argument isn't even part of this discussion. This is not a TC barrel. They prohibit the use of smokeless in their ML barrels
If anyone has a bone to pick, keep it civil. Keep it technical. No need to bad mouth members. If you KNOW something is wrong...explain it with facts. If you THINK something is wrong...explain it with theories and ideas. Discuss...discuss..... leave the trash home.
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Post by dave d. on Feb 6, 2011 8:50:50 GMT -5
:)ok ken since you want to beat a dead horse answer me this have you ever seen any other smokeless ml's and there bp design?
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Feb 6, 2011 16:22:39 GMT -5
A couple more questions...Not questioning... just questions. 1. How does this differ from a H&R 45/70 conversion? 2. How does it differ from having a barrel made to fit the Encore, again from SMI 3. Doesn't SMI remove metal from the chamber, thread it and install a breech plug?( 45/70) 4. What size is the barrel at the breech, And how much barrel is left around the plug afterwords? 5. What part of the NEF does the company say it is OK to use smokeless?(if it be the action then why not on the T/C also? They chamber everything from .22 lr up through ... Even 12ga slug's) and OK it. 6.When talking about the Remington conversion... What part of the Rem 700 MZL does Rem say is OK to use in smokeless application's? As I said above just some question's Point in case: Unless you are shooting a total box stock muzzle loader with only factory recommended load's then you are "customizing" somewhere along the line's. And a big part of this board is custom application's. If it weren't for Henry Ball... and the pioneer's of this board we wouldn't have even made it this far. We have people here building guns on Savage platform's, Remington platform's, NEF platform's Ruger platform's Marlin platform's And Thompson Center Platform's.It seems that most of these custom's revolve around a PacNor barrel. Sometimes I rely on the wisdom and experience of other's to help me decide what to do. That is why I went with the PacNor on my Savage. There is one of the gun's like described here in this thread. It has I believe around 400 shots through it at this time. And after speaking with those who designed it...Just like those who came up with the DD special from PacNor. I have chosen to order another. Thanks All Drop :)Keep em coming  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2011 21:42:06 GMT -5
Amen and Amen....it wouldnt be fun if every manufacturer made one...they dont have the gonads to try. If it wernt for the innovators this wouldnt be the good ole usa. have not seen Dave or any other moderator steer anyone in the wrong direction yet and if they did several would be screaming within five minutes, lots of saftey inspectors around here...keep up the good work guys.....Bill
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Post by boarhog on Feb 7, 2011 0:31:05 GMT -5
Maybe I haven't read the posts on converting TC and Rem 700 MLs to smokeless carefully enough, but I thought the plan isn't to start using smokeless powder in a factory rig set up for BP and Subs. Rather, the action portion of the rifles is used as a basis for the build. On the Rem ML action, they install a Pac-Nor barrel, that has been machined to accept a Savage style breach plug, that is rated for smokeless. For a TC conversion, they take a 45-70 smokeless Encore barrel, and have it machined for a smokeless breach plug. I don't think I have read anything about using a TC black powder breach plug drilled and tapped for Savage vent liners, until this thread.
Since I am very interested in doing an Encore conversion myself, I want to get this cleared up before I jump into the deep end!
Boarhog
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Post by smokeless77 on Feb 7, 2011 0:57:33 GMT -5
Can someone explain to me what a "smokeless breech plug" is.
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Post by edge on Feb 7, 2011 13:21:27 GMT -5
screwbolts, what is NOT allowed is using smokeless in a stock BP rifle!
As with any custom made rifle the user assumes the liability of its use. When you buy a barrel from a manufacturer that is designed for smokeless powder then discussing that is allowed.
In the future if you have a question concerning board policy I would suggest a PM.
edge.
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Post by Jon on Feb 7, 2011 13:40:00 GMT -5
I have no horse in this race but I assume most on this board have heard of Richards custom m/z If you have ever seen his dvd you will see he uses a unmodified bp b/p and nipple and I havn't seen any one complain.
Jon
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Post by smokeless77 on Feb 7, 2011 14:53:54 GMT -5
Richards custom rifle uses a knight B/P breech plug with a knight red hot musket nipple.
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Post by whyohe on Feb 7, 2011 16:29:09 GMT -5
I know BP design has been discussed before but cant seem to find it right now. but if there are concerns I think a new thread to DISCUSS theories and designs, who uses what and why might be in order?
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Feb 9, 2011 18:52:21 GMT -5
Spoke with Jean at BullBerry tonight... she told me she checked with PacNor today when she ordered another one... That makes 3 of us building. #3 ? I wonder who it might be?  drop |
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mac111
Forkhorn
Birthday June 29 1961
Posts: 72
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Post by mac111 on Feb 13, 2011 0:40:31 GMT -5
drop, I'm the third one that ordered a dd209x45 barrel. Cant Waite to get it.Mac111
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Feb 13, 2011 9:11:12 GMT -5
Mac congrats... What length did you order? Man this is gonna be great. Drop |
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mac111
Forkhorn
Birthday June 29 1961
Posts: 72
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Post by mac111 on Feb 13, 2011 17:25:24 GMT -5
drop I also ordered a 25 inch 800 contour
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Feb 16, 2011 20:23:05 GMT -5
ttt ;D
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 1, 2011 20:42:03 GMT -5
2months down this weekend.... Getting closer ;D
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 28, 2011 17:44:10 GMT -5
still no word
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Apr 11, 2011 20:03:37 GMT -5
Got the call today from BullBerry..It's there..Now about 3-4 weeks for production and it will ship
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Post by 12ptdroptine on May 13, 2011 18:44:55 GMT -5
spoke with jean thursday. supposed to ship this week and be here next... Ben a little over 4 month's.... got plenty of powder and sst's to launch.
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Post by Richard on May 13, 2011 19:20:42 GMT -5
And don't forget to PROOF test it with one of Richards Triplex loads ;D ;D
Good luck with it Drop!
Richard
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 21:31:55 GMT -5
looking forward to all the new builds that will be done shortly, things are about to get really interesting....Drop, 60 grns of 4198 with a 200sst and blue harvs should tell the tale in short order....Bill
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Post by 12ptdroptine on May 15, 2011 10:13:44 GMT -5
I need to get some free time to drill and tap the plug's for vent liner's...What am I going to do if this shoot's as well as my savage? I wont know what one to play with? |
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Post by tar12 on May 15, 2011 19:23:08 GMT -5
I need to get some free time to drill and tap the plug's for vent liner's...What am I going to do if this shoot's as well as my savage? I wont know what one to play with? Sell me that non-shooting Savage! ;D |
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Post by 12ptdroptine on May 24, 2011 15:38:30 GMT -5
It got here Friday... will post more later.  |
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Post by jseeliger on Jun 14, 2011 16:15:48 GMT -5
You guys convinced me - I just ordered a DD 209X45 from Bullberry. Good thing I didn't wait any longer as delivery will be in September and ML season here starts in October. I ordered a 25" with medium varmint taper.
I need some details about the ventliner installation. I assume you are talking about using a ventliner from a Savage? Exactly how should this be done? Is there someone on this board that I could send a standard TC breech plug to and pay to have this done for me? Since I won't have a lot of time once my barrel gets here, I want to get this taken care of now.
I'm very excited and can hardly wait till it gets here!
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jun 14, 2011 18:32:06 GMT -5
I ordered 2 extra plugs with mine.. You could order some ahead of time and then employ someone here to do it for you. They say it isnt hard . I intend to find out for myself. Be sure to tell them you want to save the barrel drop..Incase you ever want a full form die made..It isnt any extra charge. I ordered the 26 inch... and it feels sweet. I hope to have mine shooting in the next couple weeks. I been at work most of my life here recently... I feel a sick day coming on...lol
Any questions feel free to pm me
Drop
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Post by dave d. on Jun 14, 2011 20:48:15 GMT -5
:)js i can modify your plug give me a shout.
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