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Post by artjr338wm on Jan 2, 2011 23:28:27 GMT -5
Just wondering how the Rem 700 ML stacks up against the Elite series of MLs. And does the M700 work with BH209 and if not does anyone make a up grade kit for the bolt.
Basicly if you could buy one or the other which would you buy?
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Post by alphaburnt on Jan 3, 2011 1:43:08 GMT -5
Are you talking about a Knight Disc Elite vs Rem 700ML?
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Post by mike.dawson on Jan 3, 2011 7:47:27 GMT -5
Buy them both, keep the Elite for BP subs and convert the 700ml to 45cal smokeless. I have the elite 45cal, shoots lights out with the Barnes 195 gr and 120 gr. of BH 209, it has a standard Timmy trigger that is better than the accutrigger on my Savage, and I am now converting the 700ml that I got last week into a 45cal smokeless, the 700 trigger is also pretty good on the rifle I bought
Mike
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Post by rjhans53 on Jan 3, 2011 8:05:04 GMT -5
Art, I've got knight extreemes and ML 700's. I've owned elites before I got into savages but my kin folk have them all now. I would say the ml 700 with hunters bolt/breech plug conversion. They are both clean (the 700 with hunters conversion and the knight with the lehigh conversion) and they both shoot decent. I like the fact that the 700 is held in the stock by 3 screws instead of 1. There are options with the 700 that the elite doesn't have, ie; after market stocks, you can put a pac nor barrel on the 700, atermarket triggers (the knight doesn't need it). Keep in mind this is just MHO and others will feel different
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 3, 2011 9:50:02 GMT -5
Ive never owned a 700ML but i do have an Elite 45 and ive never had a ML that felt so much like a well balanced centerfire. Its not too heavy and deadly accurate. The trigger is oustanding and it only needed the $40 Lehigh conversion to make it do every thing i wanted. Another action screw would be nice but at this point i dont have the need for one.
I cant say anything bad about the 700ML and with the HunterBolt conversion it too should be a great rifle. This one is going to boil down to a personal preference IMO.
Buy what you like since both are great rifles.
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Post by mountainam on Jan 3, 2011 14:49:15 GMT -5
Art, The things that are positive about the Knight bolt guns are the parts that are farmed out so to speak. They have a good barrel (that they don't make) and trigger (that they don't make). IMO the part that they make (the bolt) leaves a lot to be desired just as the 700ML stock bolt design does also. The 700ML cams the boltface forward a good 3/16" whereas the Knight slides the boltface barely 1/16" via a slight angle cut that the bolt handle slides against. Meaning that I get a lot of swage on my .32ACP casing as does Hunter on the end of the 209 primer translating to a better seal. And then there's that retarded intelligence insulting secondary safety. I've never disassembled their bolt to see if that 4 oz. knurled bobweight is independent of the firing rod or if it rides along with it. If it does the latter then I can't imagine the lock-time being even NEAR the 700ML's. The stock is a personal thing. If you go 700ML you can hang a VLS on it which is my personal favorite or an old style ADL or BDL or Hogue or whatever fits you. I've never shouldered a Knight that fit me. If you're a clay shooter you will care about stock fit more than those who don't play the game. And then there's the smokeless angle that the 700ML has that the Knight has to shy away from. Just some of my biased observations. There are just MORE options with a 700ML.
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Post by alphaburnt on Jan 3, 2011 16:02:47 GMT -5
I only own the .45 Elite, and to pick it apart, the bedding is horrid- I can manually move my stock up and down and visible 1/2 inch when tightened stock screw to about 40 in lbs. The bolt is lacking as Mountainam stated, the machining is very crude on the inside, the second safety would have to increase lock time ( I removed mine yesterday, time will tell). They suffer from blow back from ill fitting primers and FPJs. The barrel is not real precise, you can feel with sliding a .451 bullet down the bore with a ramrod. Some have poor crowns, mine does not. With this being said, I can take 84 gn weight of BH209, Winchester 209 primer, Harvester lt blue sabot and .40 Shockwave and consistently put 3 shots in target at 100 yards sub MOA. I wonder what it would do if all this was corrected? I am intimidated to change anything.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 3, 2011 16:16:42 GMT -5
LMFAO at the knob. Do you have any data that proves it weights 4oz or is it just a guess? It has another use, fast bolt disassembley. I can take mine apart and clean the firing pin in about 10-20 seconds if needed. It can be removed too btw. Seems like "the knob" didnt stop Knight from winning at Friendship 6 years in a row with a DISC based rifle. How many times did Remington win? I didnt know Remington made their own barrels and triggers for the 700ML. I thought Douglas made the barrels and another company made the triggers. I will take a Timney trigger any day and Green Mountain was owned by the same company as Knight for a few years.  The smaller cam effect doesn't stop mine from having spotless primers. They barely look fired besides the dent in them. The Lehigh conversion is only $40 shipped, the Rem700ML conversions are how much? I can also switch back to the FPJ in a few minutes if needed. Thanks for the yucks as always  |
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Post by sabotloader on Jan 3, 2011 18:30:34 GMT -5
artjr338wm
I have multiple guns of both the Rem and the Knight.
The biggest difference is that the Knight is closer to being a true bolt gun and the Remington, while it looks like a bolt is a plunger gun.
There may be some difference in lock time but the average person hunting would never know.
The Remington is a great gun and it is quality steel with a decent trigger although if you read on line now there is a lot of concern over the Walker triggers that come in the Rem 700.
By todays standards if I were going to choose one or the other as they are I would take the Knight DISC Extreme/Elite over the Remington.
With that said - I would not give up my Remington's either...
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 3, 2011 18:35:04 GMT -5
And with that being said i would love to find a nice 700ML 54cal SS for a reasonable price. |
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Post by screwbolts on Jan 3, 2011 18:58:53 GMT -5
artjr338wmThe Remington is a great gun and it is quality steel with a decent trigger although if you read on line now there is a lot of concern over the Walker triggers that come in the Rem 700. Please be sure to point out that what you are refurring to as a Walker Trigger is in fact the Remington trigger designed by their engineer, Mr Walker, it is not an outsourced trigger. I also believe that they / Remington also used their own Hammer Forged Barrels on their MLs. At least that is what Remington employees have told me. I live 14 limes from the Ilion plant. I to have both Knight and 700MLs, |
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Post by grouse on Jan 3, 2011 20:39:07 GMT -5
Art, The things that are positive about the Knight bolt guns are the parts that are farmed out so to speak. They have a good barrel (that they don't make) and trigger (that they don't make). IMO the part that they make (the bolt) leaves a lot to be desired just as the 700ML stock bolt design does also. The 700ML cams the boltface forward a good 3/16" whereas the Knight slides the boltface barely 1/16" via a slight angle cut that the bolt handle slides against. Meaning that I get a lot of swage on my .32ACP casing as does Hunter on the end of the 209 primer translating to a better seal. And then there's that retarded intelligence insulting secondary safety. I've never disassembled their bolt to see if that 4 oz. knurled bobweight is independent of the firing rod or if it rides along with it. If it does the latter then I can't imagine the lock-time being even NEAR the 700ML's. The stock is a personal thing. If you go 700ML you can hang a VLS on it which is my personal favorite or an old style ADL or BDL or Hogue or whatever fits you. I've never shouldered a Knight that fit me. If you're a clay shooter you will care about stock fit more than those who don't play the game. And then there's the smokeless angle that the 700ML has that the Knight has to shy away from. Just some of my biased observations. There are just MORE options with a 700ML. Your typing looks to good to say your drunk. You don't like safety and your worried about lock time on a knight and not with a remington plunger gun?  ? I think i'll stay away from this one until after hunting season. ;D |
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Post by grouse on Jan 3, 2011 20:41:24 GMT -5
Basicly if you could buy one or the other which would you buy? Right now, actually neither. I would wait for the new Knight ML coming out this Spring. |
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Post by lanenebraska on Jan 3, 2011 22:19:34 GMT -5
Elite in any caliber  |
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Post by mountainam on Jan 4, 2011 9:01:45 GMT -5
Gmb54120, I have to fess up-- I didn't weigh the knurled bob weight. It was an estimate. Place one of yours on the scale and see how far off I am. Both rifles have a design flaw or two, but both do not lend themselves equally to correcting them. Hey, I did say it was my biased observation. Some choose to observe less, that's all. Lol!
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 4, 2011 9:14:26 GMT -5
I guess since you cant or wont answer the other questions. (removed). You really think a plunger weighs less than a Knight firing pin? LMFAO
Thank you for the edit.
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Post by artjr338wm on Jan 6, 2011 0:19:59 GMT -5
Thanks guys for the answers, and I am sorry that some poeple became offended at some of the responces to my request for help.
Although I DEEPLY and most SINCERELY appreciate any and all responces to my requests for help, I hope in the future that all persons responding to any member of this web sites request for help can please keep in mind how you word your postings so as to minamize the chances some one may misinterprit your postings as offensive. I know we are not sitting around sipping fruit punch at a sunday church social, but as my sainted, dear departed Irish grnadmother was fond of saying, "it does not cost you a nickle to be nice.
Grouce, I would love to buy a new Knight ML come Feb, but I strongly doubt a new 2011 Knight is going to be in my price range, as I already own a 10ML-II and Encore the Knight represents a nearly pure want and not a need in terms of purchess. I can buy a Elite in 99% new cond for most likely 1/2 the cost of a new Knight.
As I have not found a M700 to my liking I will be buying a Elite. I will keep my I out for both in the future as I might buy one more if the price is rite.
Again thanks to all and please try to remain civil as this is one of the most civil and classy websites I know of, and I knoe alot of them.
Arthur.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 6, 2011 9:29:40 GMT -5
Art, i think you will really like the Elite. The only negative i can see is the lack of drop in ready stocks. Most other DISC stocks will fit with minor work if you want one. Some newer Extreme stocks might fit without any work.
I highly recommend the Lehigh NFPJ conversion if you want to make it a clean shooter and totally reliable with any sub. The cost is very reasonable and the quality is great. Ive added them to all of my DISC based guns.
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Post by artjr338wm on Jan 7, 2011 8:57:33 GMT -5
GMB,
Funny you should mention the Lehigh NFPJ conversion as I 100% plan on getting it if I buy. Based on your experience, is the installation of this conversion a simple affair to be performed by ones self, and are there any specific types of tool(s) needed that would make the process easier.
Thanks,
Arthur.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 7, 2011 9:12:07 GMT -5
Yes, it is very simple to install
The adapter drops in the bolt assembly like a FPJ once removed from the action and the breach plug is a direct swap using a deep well socket and extension. Win209s (longest) are the cleanest in all of mine but WinT7s and Fed209As work fine too. RemSTS (shortest) are very clean in one of mine and just ok in the rest. All of them ignited BH209 extremely well.
You may also need a allen for the bolt release unless it was upgraded to a quick release. Teflon tape or anti seize also for the vent liner and BP threads....whichever you prefer..i prefer the Teflon tape.
Also make sure there is no leftover oils IN the new breach plug. Brake cleaner works great for degreasing BEFORE you install it.
BTW sorry for the heated debate we are both passionate about our choice of guns and typing just doesn't come across the same way face to face does. Mountainam is actually a very helpful guy, he just loves his Rems like i love my Knights.
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Post by smokeless77 on Jan 7, 2011 23:36:41 GMT -5
I ordered a Lehigh conversion on Dec. 27, They just today shipped it out.
I thought it was kind of slow on the shipping.
John
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Post by bteague on Jan 8, 2011 11:29:58 GMT -5
John Everyone is still catching up from the holiday's
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 8, 2011 14:25:19 GMT -5
I ordered a Lehigh conversion on Dec. 27, They just today shipped it out. I thought it was kind of slow on the shipping. John Occasionally shipping or emails are a bit slow since he does other work too. He also just got some more large contracts to fill and im sure he is very busy atm. Some of my orders took only a few days and a couple took over a week. Plan accordingly for your schedule is this best advice for now. Im placing an order today and will post results later if you want. I dont need anything for a few weeks so im ok with the wait considering the quality. |
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Post by gman57 on Jan 9, 2011 13:18:26 GMT -5
I ordered my conversion for my Elite in early Dec and had it 3,or 4 days after ordering, and what beautiful pice of machining it is.
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? I think i'll stay away from this one until after hunting season. ;D
