|
|
Post by petev on Dec 3, 2010 21:49:37 GMT -5
Recently I lost confidence in the ability of my Savage ML to shoot consistently, i.e. without fliers etc. This was after about 3 years of effort. So, I thought of buying a PacNor barrel, but somehow made the decision to buy a T/C Omega instead. So, here's how it went: A PacNor barrel would have cost $450, whereas the Omega was on sale from Cabelas for $329, with free shipping. The bullets from my Savage shooting, ended up fitting the Omega barrel, as if the two rifles had the same inside diameter barrels. The Omega came yesterday, and I shot it today. After shooting it, I am sold on the Omega, between the two, because of the following: the Omega is lighter and well balanced, is 2 inches shorter than the Savage, has considerably less recoil with the same load and bullets, is hugely more problem free and accurate out of the box. It is a hunting rifle, it can be carried and swung more easilly than the bigger Savage. It is easier to load, clean and disassemble. I conclude that the Savage is for shooters who want to push the limit in terms of speed and range, where the Omega is better for everyday hunters like me. I shot 8 shots today, and had the group down to a 1" group at 60 yards. No cooling was needed between shots. It shot the same clean or dirty. I shot 2 different bullets, the SW 250 and Hornaday 300 HP, and the POI for both groups was the same at 60 yards. The charge was 100 gr. of Blackhorn 209, measured with a dipper. I offer this report as an alternative to those who have had a similar experience with the Savage MLII, and are trying to decide on their next move.
|
|
|
|
Post by billyzink on Dec 3, 2010 22:05:34 GMT -5
Want to sell your savage?
|
|
|
|
Post by petev on Dec 3, 2010 22:08:45 GMT -5
bz, why did I know that question would come up? Yes, I am going to sell it. I've got to come up with a price for it, and I have a brand new wood stock for it that I didn't put on, and AA5744 if anyone lives closeby. Pete
|
|
|
|
Post by billyzink on Dec 3, 2010 22:13:34 GMT -5
Would sure luv to take it off your hands!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by sabotloader on Dec 3, 2010 22:44:36 GMT -5
petev
Never had a Savage - but I really do like my Omega - it has been a stand out gun for me...
I hope you spend many years with your Omega...
|
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Dec 3, 2010 23:15:42 GMT -5
Even though i think the Savage is extremely nice and even has the twist i prefer in a 50cal...if i want to shoot subs....many other rifles are higher on my list for hunting in my area. I almost never get a shot over 150 yards and my Knights will handle that just fine. Im keeping my Savage mainly for slightly more affordable range fun and practice.  |
|
|
|
Post by Jon on Dec 4, 2010 4:58:49 GMT -5
Petev. I'm glad you are happy with your Omega. If you decide to sell I'm interested. If you find the Omega easier to clean. It may be because you were shooting b/p. I really don't see how it is any easier but I've never shoot any thing but smokeless. But that is up to you. I also had enough trouble getting my savage to shoot. But when I started to pay attention to people on the board It started to come together. I now have 2 45's and 3 50's. I would sure like to add one more.
Jon
|
|
|
|
Post by dave d. on Dec 4, 2010 7:37:34 GMT -5
:)Pete I just bought 2 .45 omegas and I have to agree with you they are great guns. They do balance great and shoot great right out of the box. I had a friend of mine work the triggers on both and he got one down to 2 1/4 pds perfect. I shot it 2 weeks ago and was amazed how well it shoot and how easy it was to shoot. Primers came out with my fingers and they were clean as a whistle. I left the range with a huge smile on my face and 2 days later our opener started and guess what gun was in my hands ;D. I was searching for one of these guns for awhile and it was worth the wait.my collection is complete...
|
|
|
|
Post by jhm on Dec 4, 2010 7:56:47 GMT -5
I would agree that when comparing a stock Savage verses an Omega when shooting B209 the Omega wins. I have both rifles and found the Omega was very easy to get to shoot well. The Savage was a bit of a challenge. Now the Savage has a Pacnor barrel and is a joy to shoot. But, there is a lot of money invested in the Savage. I paid $225 for a new Omega with a camo stock on Gunbroker. For the price it is a hard rifle to beat.
I would like to find out who can work the trigger on an Omega. Mine is a bit too heavy for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by topusmc on Dec 4, 2010 9:16:09 GMT -5
Petev;
A while back I entered a post simular to this one. After trying the top of the line modified Muzzleloaders, all have been sold. I have an ENCORE, .45 cal Bergara barrel, and an Optima CVA in . 50. Both of these shoot as good at a 100 yards as any I have seen. Much easier to hunt with in all respects. Taking nothing away from the others, as you say, for the few who want to reach the extreame. We all have our nitches and follow the road to our satisfaction as it requires. I just wounder how long our STATES will allow a seperate Muzzloloader season. I do feel the end is coming, not soon but coming. Take advantage of what we got, shoot Muzzleloaders
|
|
|
|
Post by dave d. on Dec 4, 2010 22:15:26 GMT -5
I would agree that when comparing a stock Savage verses an Omega when shooting B209 the Omega wins. I have both rifles and found the Omega was very easy to get to shoot well. The Savage was a bit of a challenge. Now the Savage has a Pacnor barrel and is a joy to shoot. But, there is a lot of money invested in the Savage. I paid $225 for a new Omega with a camo stock on Gunbroker. For the price it is a hard rifle to beat. I would like to find out who can work the trigger on an Omega. Mine is a bit too heavy for me. :)jhm contact clayman on this board he did both my omegas.one is 2 1/4 pds and the other is 2 3/4 pds perfectly crisp.he charges $60 plus shipping |
|
|
|
Post by jhm on Dec 5, 2010 11:48:37 GMT -5
Thanks Dave.
|
|
|
|
Post by spaniel on Dec 5, 2010 13:03:21 GMT -5
As dave d knows I am an Omega fan having both the thumbhole version and an X7. IMHO it is the ideal gun for shooting subs, short of dropping $1500 on an Ultimate ML the Omega will go about as far as a BP sub will go.
There's not a comparison in cleaning with the Savage, I have yet to even clean my Savage. But I would never put a sub load in my Savage. If I was going to shoot only subs I would never have built the Savage due to all the advantages you listed.
|
|
|
|
Post by petev on Dec 5, 2010 15:05:55 GMT -5
Spaniel, the way you say you haven't even cleaned your Savage yet. You should be loosening the vent liner, and maybe cleaning the breechplug now and then at least.
|
|
|
|
Post by lunchbox on Dec 5, 2010 16:47:37 GMT -5
Im just curious as to what a sub is? Not used to black powder
Lunchbox
|
|
|
|
Post by petev on Dec 5, 2010 17:33:20 GMT -5
Blackpowder substitutes: Pyrodex, triple 7 etc. as opposed to smokeless muzzleloaders which are shooting rifle powder.
|
|
|
|
Post by mountainam on Dec 5, 2010 19:13:18 GMT -5
It's kinda sad to read some of this stuff after Savage announced the production end of their Smokeless MLII. The T/C Omega is probably the best rifle that T/C makes. Do they make the barrels or are they subbed out to Green Mountain? There's no way I'll stop using smokeless. Come'on guys, exposed hammer rifles with dismal lock-times are for the guys on those other sites--you know the ones that wear the fringed jackets with the leather leggings and a butt-flap. The guys that say 1800fps is all you need. So what if it drops 4ft. Or better yet, shoot some 450 gr slugs at 1100fps. So what if it's slower than a shotgun slug-- that's all you need. I'll stick with the cutting edge stuff that the great thinkers present here. I have to admit, I'm still intrigued by that 4 oz knurled bob weight that Knight hangs on the back of their firing pin. I guess they don't want that lock-time to get away from you. I just might add one of those on the back of my Remington firing pin--just to make it fair.
|
|
|
|
Post by spaniel on Dec 5, 2010 20:31:25 GMT -5
It's kinda sad to read some of this stuff after Savage announced the production end of their Smokeless MLII. The T/C Omega is probably the best rifle that T/C makes. Do they make the barrels or are they subbed out to Green Mountain? There's no way I'll stop using smokeless. Come'on guys, exposed hammer rifles with dismal lock-times are for the guys on those other sites--you know the ones that wear the fringed jackets with the leather leggings and a butt-flap. The guys that say 1800fps is all you need. So what if it drops 4ft. Or better yet, shoot some 450 gr slugs at 1100fps. So what if it's slower than a shotgun slug-- that's all you need. I'll stick with the cutting edge stuff that the great thinkers present here. I have to admit, I'm still intrigued by that 4 oz knurled bob weight that Knight hangs on the back of their firing pin. I guess they don't want that lock-time to get away from you. I just might add one of those on the back of my Remington firing pin--just to make it fair. I've shot deer to 338 yds with my Omega. I see no deficiency in that. I really didn't care if it was 100 fps slower than some shotgun slugs because it is way, way more accurate. Also, remember not all states accept smokeless in ML season. |
|
|
|
Post by spaniel on Dec 5, 2010 20:33:25 GMT -5
Spaniel, the way you say you haven't even cleaned your Savage yet. You should be loosening the vent liner, and maybe cleaning the breechplug now and then at least. I've replaced one ventliner that burned out and with teflon tape I have found no need to loosen the BP. It does not seize. I am waiting until I am done hunting to screw with carbon removal etc, that is not something I want to mess with during the season as long as I have no accuracy issues. |
|
|
|
Post by zakjak221 on Dec 5, 2010 21:38:47 GMT -5
The Savage is nice--No clouds,no routine cleaning or swabin,flatter tragectory,lower cost per shot and I haven't used my Omega since I got the Savage. With only one shot--Savage gives me the edge IMO.  Mark |
|
|
|
Post by petev on Dec 5, 2010 23:11:54 GMT -5
mountainam, my decision had nothing to do with the timing of the end of production for the Savage ML, not that you were implying that, but i guess some have warmer feelings toward the Savage than others. I for one, being used to Savage's reputation for "out of the box" shooters, never thought the quality of the barrel would be an issue, which it obviously often is, and then the stock is the chinciest I've ever seen on a rifle. Some got good shooters, a lot didn't. Just read the posts. I admit that given enough money, the Savage can probably go farther in terms of performance than any other ML, but in my opinion, the rifle was never really finished when it was released for production.
|
|
|
|
Post by mountainam on Dec 5, 2010 23:36:42 GMT -5
Petev, No doubt about it, the barrel makes the rifle. If they missed the mark they should have farmed the barrel out as others have done. I realize that they had to make it in a caliber that would sell in more states. 45 IS the caliber for smokeless. AND smokeless is NOT for everyone.
|
|
|
|
Post by screwbolts on Dec 6, 2010 6:51:25 GMT -5
Blackpowder substitutes: Pyrodex, triple 7 etc. as opposed to smokeless muzzleloaders which are shooting rifle powder. Just a note here to help clarify things in my mind :-) What is rifle powder? I have an extensive inventory of many powders used in reloading almost any cartridge, but non are labeled "Rifle Powder". Ken |
|
|
|
Post by GMB54-120 on Dec 6, 2010 8:39:14 GMT -5
I got quite the chuckle about the 4oz knob on the Knights. I wonder how Knight sold over 79,000 MK-85s (one of the best inlines of all time) and won no less than 6 National ML Manufacturing titles with that KNOB and poor lock time. Wm (Tony) Knight Their 45cal 1-18 twist DISC target rifle was a bargain if you get into competition at that level considering it won 6 years in a row at Friendship. The knob didnt seem to keep them from beating A&H (2nd place) or keep 3 deer from ending up in my freezer this year. Thanks for the yucks. |
|
|
|
Post by savagebeast on Dec 6, 2010 10:46:39 GMT -5
What loads were you shooting in your Savage Petev?
Maybe we can help you get on track with it. Never hurts to have more than one MZ.
|
|
av8er
Button Buck
Posts: 1
|
Post by av8er on Jan 30, 2011 21:52:14 GMT -5
Petev, I had the same experience with the 10MLII. I've been a long time reader of this site but never posted. I had two 10MLII's and could not get either of them to deliver the consistency I wanted. I could get a 3 sub MOA, then get a flier. I had a misfire which nearly cost me a 160 inch buck in Iowa using N120, a Barnes Original, with an Org MMP sabot and ignited by a CCI209M. Over the last 3 years I've spent hundreds and hundreds of $ on powder, bullets, sabots, and scopes. I've kept the guns clean, changed ventliners, kept the carbon out of the BP, and on and on. This year before my Iowa hunt I gave up on smokeless. I traded one Savage for a T/C Omega and kept the other. The Savage I kept is just to pretty to part with and it works great using BH209. With BH209 both guns deliver sub MOA groups at 100 meters. As I saw another member post, "I started smoking again." BTW, in Iowa my Savage took a deer at 150 yards using 80 gr. of BH209, Winchester primer, Hornady 250 Gr. FTX with a MMP short black sabot.
|
|
