Primers: 209 vs. Large rifle/pistol

[johnp034]

Is there a significant difference? What are the pro's & con's of one vs. the other? Any accuracy diff? I know the 209's are not as clean, and probably need more frequent swabbing. Anyone done any comparisons?

Thanx,

JohnP

[shoot2reload]

Are you considering something like the Variflame? Supposedly the benefit of using a small pistol or small rifle primer is the output isn't powerful enough to push the bullet/sabot up the barrel before the powder ignites. That might be true, but it would only apply to BP and BP subs, not smokeless.

From what I've read on this forum, the Variflame performs poorly in the Savage.

[edge]

I think that he is interested in converting a centerfire rifle to a ML and will be using some sort of module or case for priming.

Personally I prefer a 209 because it has a stronger flame, IMO, and since it actually enters the BP nipple it partially seals the BP.

The two big negatives are cutting a pocket in a case for the 209, and de-priming / priming after the shots.

IMO, if you use a 209 then the BP nipple should be very tight and the bolt should need to cam the primer into it.
Some folks don't like that, and de-priming will be an issue without a press.
The reason it would be a problem is because the end of the primer will swell when it is fired and will be difficult to push through the smaller section bored in the case!

I suppose you could make the primer fit loose in the case but I never tried that.


Using a LRM needs precise headspacing to ensure ignition and to minimize blowby. Other than sorting your cases for web thickness and somewhat lower flame there is noting easier and they are easy to prime / de-prime.

edge.

[johnp034]

I'm converting a 45-70 Encore to sm. I have a local machinist/gunsmith going to install a Savage BP for me this week, its his first try, but I'm confident he'll do well. He builds 1911 pistols and AR's, so he should be ok with this. I'll keep you posted as we go. Got the barrel and BP in yesterday.

[cfvickers]

I experimented with this while trying to get my 10ML-I to shoot right ( I did eventually). I found a way to remove the primer from the jacket of spent 209 primers, and replace it with a Fed 215. the 215 seemed like it was not as hot as a fed 209A or a CCI209M and I got dismal results. It may work in your gun, but I cannot imagine it being any improvement.

[edge]

If you are using a Savage plug then a 209 is the way to go!

IMO, have your machinist make a small bushing that will prevent the 209 from going in too deep.

A sketch of the breechplug with some dimensions:



If he determines how deep the primer should go he can measure your plug and make a press fit in that 0.230 diameter step and a 1/8 - 5/32 ID.

He will probably need to make a "fork" de-priming tool.

edge.

[edge]

I forgot to add that you probably want him to either recess the plug OR since there is no barrel nut, you might have him cut off the snout completely!

Something like the top sketch:



edge.

[johnp034]

Thanks Edge, he is contemplating cutting off the snout. Actually, he is starting from scratch, checking the Rockwell on the Savage bp and then making a new plug off of your print. He wants to try making it a flush fit with the receiver on the Encore, and putting a recess on the lip of the bp for easier primer removal. Don't understand all of it, but he seems to.

Put the 45-70 barrel on the Encore before I took it over to him, should be fun to shoot! Weighs in at under 6 lbs. (without scope). Wouldn't care to shoot it with full house 45-70 loads!

Anyway, thanks for all your imput, Edge. I'll keep you posted as we progress.

JohnP