Barnes 250 T-EZ HELP! PLEASE!

[archer2023]

Aright... Had the Savage out tat the range today. I had to install new scope rings because of my "over tightening problem".

I sighted the gun back in at 200 yards with the 250 grain .452 Hornady FTX bullets, seated in Hartvester black HP sabots "non crush rib"

The above sabots seemed WAY too loose fitting to me, but i decided to give it a go just for the heck of it. 1.4" CtC @ 200 yards... HUH? WHAT I wasn't expecting that with those "loose fitting" sabots. I was impressed.

SO, everything is all fine and dandy. I decide to see how my 250 grain Barnes T-EZ's will fly. It was TERRIBLE! "I was really hoping to hunt with them"
The Best group I could manage with them was around 10!!!!!!!" at 200 The worst were off of a 20" target.
I tried MANY different sabot's with the barnes. The blue ones that are included, MMP Short. Harvester's of various makes, Other mmp's anything that I had in my box They would NOT shoot. Some sabots were loose, others about right and some darn difficult to get down the bore.
SO. I stuck the same ole FTX in a Harvester black .452 13 and 61 Duplex and VOILA! 1.5" @ 200 yards...
I let the gun cool down in between each shot with the barnes just like I did while shooting the FTX's.

Does anyone have ANY IDEA what the heck is going on? could it actually be "bad bullets"?"

Gun is a bone stock savage ml2.

[boarhog]

If I remember correctly, the Barnes bullets are .451. You might try knurling them a little. Also, look at the bases of the Barnes, if they have a lot of radius, that could be your problem. I have several boxes of the SSTs that barely shoot minute of berm! Took me a while to figure it out. Big radius equals big trouble! My sabots were not shredded, but the bases were drilled or cracked. If your T-EZs have a boat tail, that may be even worse.
Boarhog

[wilmsmeyer]

I'd stick to the 1.5 inch groups you had at 200 yds with the FTX's and go hunt....What's wrong with that?

[archer2023]

Do you guys think the FTX's will be good deer medicine or explode like a SST?

[Dave W]

Nov 11, 2010 19:45:09 GMT -5 wilmsmeyer said:

I'd stick to the 1.5 inch groups you had at 200 yds with the FTX's and go hunt....What's wrong with that?

What he said.

Same load you are using 13/62 with the 250 TEZ and the same sabot you used with the FTX was giving me close to 2700fps and MOA-1.5 MOA @ 200yds. I had to put a very heavy knurl on them to get them to shoot. Problem was they would still occasionally blow a sabot.


The one I shot 2 years ago was a pass through at less than a 100yds @ approx. 2600fps with the 250 FTX. Big hole in and out. Buddy has taken several with straight N110, recovered 2 bullets that weighed approximately 220gr.

[archer2023]

I can't leave well enough alone... its not in my blood! LOL

I'm a Professional Archer and I habitually Super-tune EVERYTHING!

[archer2023]

Crappy pics, but does this look like the radius of doom on the Barnes? FTX on left and the FTX has a LOT more radius than the Barnes. I do notice that the base of the Barnes it not flat. It is concave. "Why?"

[boarhog]

The only deer I've shot with an FTX was inside 20 yds. The bullet broke major bones and exited. I would NOT be afraid to hunt with them.
BH

[archer2023]

3 @ 200, 250, .452 FTX 13/61 Duplex wind L>Rt@8Mph

[dans]

Just go huntin.

[archer2023]

Sounds like some knurling is in order then.

[artjr338wm]

Anyone feel free to jump in and correct me if I give any incorrect advice, here gos. My experience with the boat tailed 250 grain and 290 grain TMZs as well as the 245 grain Spitfires has been this. With a non-knurled bullet you can get good to vary good groups at 100yds, but once you move to 200yrds your accuracy will almost certainly become totally unacceptable.

That is where the knurling comes in. I have achieved accuracy at 200yds that is more than adequate for hunting with 245/SFs, 250&290/TMZs but I had to first knurl them all up to at least .4535" VS their factory original OD of .451". I also have experimented with using different types of boat tailed specific sabots as well, and found out that IN MY 10ML-II, the Barnes factory supplied (yellow & blue) sabots are about as tough a sabot as you will find.

Personally I would as others have already suggested just hunt with the 250/FTXs and save your load development with the TMZs till after deer season.

If you are intent on using the TMZs let me know and some time in the not to distant future I will be happy to share with you all I have learned. A good place to start is to do a search of posts made by me under my U/N of artjr338wm, as I have posted 3-4 range reports on my experiences with knurled TMZs & SFs. AAMOF one such of my reports is listed in the
Tips and Hints" section.

Good luck,
Arthur.

[archer2023]

My groups are mainly vertical in spread, if it were a bow in question I would know that there needs to be more weight out n the end of the stabilizer.. A gun well I aint an expert. When the gun was factory fresh "camo tupperware stock" and i had done NOTHING to it, it shot about a 4" horizontal spread at 100.. Sure enough the sides of the flimsy stock were crammed up against the barrel. And the recoil lug was just floating in space. Got those issues fixed "shoulda replaced the stock, but i hate to scratch up a pretty gun hunting" \

I am shooting with the ramrod IN its place on the gun. Do you guts think its causing the vertical spread?

[rangeball]

Art, I think he is talking about the flat based barnes.

archer, did you recover any of the sabots after shooting the barnes? What did they look like?

[archer2023]

Sabots looked "mixed" the harvesters were beautiful, the mmp's were aright but some missing pedals. the blue things they came with I dunno where they went they must have shredded.

And yes I was trying the flat base barnes.

I may mess around with the boat tails after season.

Who makes the best replacement breach plug for the ml2? I do still want replaceable liners, and the hex head would be nice "but not necessary. Considering a plug that will accept a cartridge base "25 acp?" to run some primers in that are a lil more consistent than the 209's. And also considering a recessed plug. Anyone out there make such a rascal?

[rangeball]

Nov 11, 2010 19:55:05 GMT -5 Dave W said:

Same load you are using 13/62 with the 250 TEZ and the same sabot you used with the FTX was giving me close to 2700fps and MOA-1.5 MOA @ 200yds. I had to put a very heavy knurl on them to get them to shoot. Problem was they would still occasionally blow a sabot.

Knurling should help transfer the spin to the bullet and give you better accuracy but it sounds like you are right on the edge of what the sabot can take with the harder all copper bullet. Might try knurling and backing off a bit if you are really set on hunting with them. Of course your go to load isn't too shabby

[bloodtrailer]

Shot placement is #1 ;D , If your FTX is hitting it's target it's better than anything that misses!! Relax go hunting if you're worried stay way from major bones. Some would kill to have groups like yours at 100, you have it at :o200

[deadon]

Nov 15, 2010 18:24:02 GMT -5 bloodtrailer said:

Shot placement is #1 ;D , If your FTX is hitting it's target it's better than anything that misses!! Relax go hunting if you're worried stay way from major bones. Some would kill to have groups like yours at 100, you have it at :o200

Is the 200 gr 40 caliber ftx available lose? I can not find it on Hornadays website at all? Thanks, Rusty

[archer2023]

deadon, are you referring to the hornady SST - ML? If so I doubt that with it being called a ML bullet, that it will be offered loose. "without a phone call" And thats if they offer it at all. Looks like they don't mess with 40 caliber for rifles, much, if any at all.

[boarhog]

I think they offer packs of 50 SSTs in 45 cal (.452) without sabots. I have shot some sabot less in my 45 cal P-N, with fair success. I just got a .450 sizing die to polish out until I find the best fit.
BH

[archer2023]

What OD are you guys knurling the TEZ's up to? I mic'ed mine this evening. They weren't even .451. they mic'ed out at .4503 "the largest" and .4498 "the smallest" out of 5 that i measured.. I am going to try, .4525 and see what happens.

[Dave W]

.453 or thereabouts. I found them to be very inconsistent on OD's also.

[archer2023]

ITS A DISASTER!!!! or atleast it was. I managed to knock over my ml2 last night Landed on the right scope cap.. "Oh noooo this aint gonna be good" Managed to find time to get some rounds off a lil before dark this evening. 9" left and an inch high from 100 yard zero. d**n!!! Luckily i was able to get it re-zeroed just as it was getting too dark to see the target. Darn thing printed a TIGHT mickey mouse for my 3 shot group before putting it back in the case.. Ill make sure that I do not leave it in harms way again!