Bedding Results

[mike3132]

I bedded a new gun for a guy and wanted to show the results of how a bedding job will improve the accuracy.

In the picture you see the target Savage sent with the new gun, 1.4" using 43 grains of 4759, 250 XTP, mmp short black sabot.

After I bedded the gun I used 300 Barnes Expanders, MMP12, CCI 209 M and 42.0 grains of 4759. Group was .650. Even though i used a different load the tighter group is the result of the bedding job. Mike

[screwbolts]

Hi Mike3123,
Did you actually shot the group last month, and was the gun then test fired at the factory 21 days later.

[mike3132]

Nov 6, 2010 16:32:53 GMT -5 screwbolts said:

Hi Mike3123,
Did you actually shot the group last month, and was the gun then test fired at the factory 21 days later.

The gun was new from the factory and was shot there 10 days ago. I got the gun Weds, did the bedding job Thursday and I shot it today. Mike

[Richard]

Mike..........please explain how you can tell that the bedding job produced the tighter group??? Based on your above post. You are definitely not comparing apples with apples It would have been better had YOU shot the gun prior to the bedding with YOUR load and then YOU shoot it after the bedding...............NO??? I mean, come on! Your bedding job may well be very good but thats not proof positive.
Richard

[screwbolts]

Nov 6, 2010 16:39:30 GMT -5 mike3132 said:

Nov 6, 2010 16:32:53 GMT -5 screwbolts said:

Hi Mike3123,
Did you actually shot the group last month, and was the gun then test fired at the factory 21 days later.

The gun was new from the factory and was shot there 10 days ago. I got the gun Weds, did the bedding job Thursday and I shot it today. Mike

Mike, take a look at the target , you dated it wrong!!! :-) I believe that today's date is often designated as 11-6-10 or is it still Oct?

[mike3132]

Oops I dated the target wrong, sorry.

Richard,

Im not looking for praise on my bedding job, just try to show that bedding a gun is the easiest thing you can do for gaining accuracy. The load Savage shot is their accuracy load they test each barrel with and I used it to sight the gun in with but ran out of 250 bullets and sabots. If I had a 3 shot group with that load too compare to theirs I would have posted it but i was only shooting two shot groups to adjust the scope. I personally don't pick the best 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5 shots as a group size.

Lastly Richard have you ever seen a gun that was bedded not shoot better than when it was not bedded? I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Mike

[Jon]

Mike. I've got no horse in this race but I would have to agree with Richard If both groups were not shot with the same load and componets and preferably by the same person at least. You are talking at best apple's and orange's

[mike3132]

You are totally missing the point but you guys are right and Im wrong, Sorry I even posted the picture. Mike

[Jon]

Mike. It was not to be ofensive just my one 2c. And not to even think about your bedding work. It has been proven that there are some ml2 that just happened to be assembled right that would gain very little if at all from bedding. On the otherside of the coin some gained greatly. I feel any good bedding job done properly will at least down the road be an improvement if only for the material used. Again just mt 2c.
Jon

[tdillinger]

the bedding may have helped, but the load comps are different. Im not saying this to start a fuss i shoot the factory load 42 gr 4749 with a 250 xtp and my grouping is the same as yours with bedding. I am only shooting 100yds though. but i feel i can do 200.

[mike3132]

No offense taken. I hope this post will help a few. Mike

[killahog]

It sounds like the way to solve this debate is to remove the bedding and shoot the factory load. Re bed the rifle and then shoot the factory load again. Just kidding, First off a single 3 shot group is not enough information to make a baseline for accuracy.
There are alot of really accurate guns on here that will shoot sub MOA and from time to time shoot a group the size of the factory group that was sent with your friends gun. That doesn't mean that they are in need of a bedding job. I do think that almost all of these 10ml's should be bedded. Thanks for posting.

[spaniel]

I've never seen bedding hurt accuracy but sometimes it is hard to tell if it helped. Certainly one must use the same load to make conclusions. I wish I had save the targets I shot with the 243Win for my Savage before and after bedding, there was a clear and consistent difference.

[bloodtrailer]

my son's gun unbedded Richard has a point if you don't shoot the gun first with the same load you can't tell if the bedding improved anything

[wilmsmeyer]

Mike,

Bedding improved my consistency. There are still loads that don't shot as well as others...and they consistently do poor. However the good loads shoot consistently good.

A real simple way to just add to your post...I would shoot the Savage factory load next time you get the chance and compare it to the 1.4" group supplied from Savage. Then your point will be nailed down.

[dans]

This rifle belongs to my son and the only thing I care about is that it shoots consistantly around 1 inch at 100 yards with the Barnes 300 grain MZ. Mike is my go to guy to get a savage muzzleloader set up for hunting. How many groups do you have to shoot to confirm a rifle shoots a certain size group? I know this one shot a .650 and kept everything around 1 inch. The deer won't notice the difference and I have confidence that the rifle will shoot just as well in the future. I'll take a bedded rifle over an unbedded one any day.

[spaniel]

Nov 7, 2010 6:56:13 GMT -5 dans said:

How many groups do you have to shoot to confirm a rifle shoots a certain size group? I know this one shot a .650 and kept everything around 1 inch. The deer won't notice the difference and I have confidence that the rifle will shoot just as well in the future.

You answered your own question!

Unless you are competition shooting, confirming an exact group size doesn't matter and we could argue until the cows come home what it takes to prove it. I care a little bit with comparing between different loads during load development but that's about it, as long as it's 1" or less. The only time I'm more picky is with centerfire that I expect to shoot at long range (600yd+).

[chuck41]

Good grief guys. Give Mike3132 a little slack here!! He just put up a post that says, "see, bedding helps" and you turned it into a congressional hearing on minutia.

Spaniel is right. The precise contribution to group size don't matter to 99.99% of us here. We just want a reliable gun that will kill a deer at the ranges we want to shoot. Mike showed us that bedding will help.

Thanks Mike. Looks like good info to me.

[spaniel]

I don't think anyone was trying to get into minutia...the point was that if the same load was not used how can we possibly know the contribution of bedding? I have an inline where the jump from 110gr 777 to 115gr 777 under a 200SW doubles the group size. If I were to shoot a group with 115gr 777 load, then modify the gun and shoot a group with the 110gr load, how could I possibly credit the mod with the group size improvement?

I'm sure that if he got the same load as the factory and shot a group with it that he would find equal to better group size. I bed all my actions. If you want to conclusively test it you need to use the same load though!

[sagittarius]

This thread reminds me of AT.
"that's all I got to say about that"

[dannoboone]

To ADD to what Mike said (rather than putting bullet holes in his
post), the 10MLII, due to its design, can change POI every time
the stock is removed for cleaning, and many times just when the
rear action screw is loosened for bolt removal.

A proper, full action bedding job eliminates this problem. Mine can
now be fully taken apart, reassembled, and shoot the same POI.
Prior to bedding, that was a crap-shoot.

[Deleted]

I've bedded 4 centerfires, and 3 Savage ML's in the last 3 years. In every case bedding and floating the barrel added to the stability, consistency, and accuracy of the 7 rifles. When I pick up a new rifle I'll take it out and shoot it and then it's straight to my gun room to bed it and float the barrel.....Point well taken Mike....
Zen

[rossman40]

I'm proud of you Mike!

I was having all kinds of problems the last range session. Shooter offered his original barrel and after a quick swap off to the range. Using his load of 43gr of 4579 and a 250gr bullet the first group was a tad under 1.5" and the next one came in under .75". After all the hassle it seems my N110 powder has gone bad after 8 years.

[Richard]

Mike.............And again, I am being redundant, I 100% agree that your bedding probably did help the gun. Even less than perfect bedding will usually always help a gun shoot better! But, in order to showcase the improvement, you need to compare equal loads shot under similar conditions or, several loads for one session as compared to several from another. Like someone posted...........The next time out, when you have the same components that Savage shot, shoot a group or two and see how it compares.
I can take one of my precision bench rifles and fire a group with one powder and bullet combination and get a group .2" big and then fire the same rifle with a different powder and bullet and get a group .4" without touching the bedding. In your case you not only shot a different load altogether but you bedded it? Had you shot your load prior to bedding and then after, it would be more valid........so I don't think I'm missing the point
Richard

[10ga]

Mike, Beddin helped my Savage shoot better too. It's helped every rifle that I have done it to. Good shootin. 10

[ozark]

Bedding improves consistency and accuarcy in general. Noone has to prove it improves one load but not another. Unless someone here is good enough to custom bed for a particular load. I doubt that talent is yet discovered. Bedding creates a mirror fit between action and stock, eliminated the effect that moisture has on wood and simply an easy way to improve a rifle. Nitpicking doesn't make us smarter or change the effects of bedding rifles.Like Forrest Gump, thats all I'm going to say about that. If you are a nitpicker that may not be the exact wording to what Forrest said.

[Richard]

You know......................I present a valid point and then get jumped on for Nit-Pickin !
Richard

[dannoboone]

Nov 8, 2010 17:47:04 GMT -5 Richard said:

You know......................I present a valid point and then get jumped on for Nit-Pickin !
Richard

Yep, your point is totally valid. Mike needs to get with that guy
and shoot the same stuff that was shot at the factory, in order to
prove the point. A .500" group would probably satisfy everyone.
Otherwise, the comparison could be said to be apples and
oranges.

In my case, 200gr SST's shoot accurately much more consistently
in the .45 PacNor barrel than they did in the .50 Savage barrel
prior to bedding. ;D ;D ;D

[Jon]

Richard. +1. I don't think anything was said wrong and was not said with any bad intent. Some people just like to beat a dead horse. As I understand everything on this board is supposed to be to gain knowledge. I would hate to see it get to the point where people don't post because it is going to be drug out way beyond the point.
Jon

[deadon]

Nov 8, 2010 17:47:04 GMT -5 Richard said:

You know......................I present a valid point and then get jumped on for Nit-Pickin !
Richard

For what it is worth I agree with you. I will have many groups through my 45 pacnor and after it is bedded and the third pillar installed, I will try those same loads again. When I first decided to buy a pacnor , I said I wanted to take it ONE STEP AT A TIME. I will , as soon as work picks up, get it bedded and see what improves,BUT, I will be shooting the same loads I got good results from before bedding. Just my redundant two, Rusty------- I have a tuperware stock and all I have done is free floated the barrel and the pacnor fit perfectly. A business card still slides all the way ;D.