The new model 70

[12ptdroptine]

I read in my American Hunter a while back that the new model 70 being made down south , Was even better than the pre-1964 model. For fit and finish,smoother. I think the quote said something about it being better than all the previous. Can anyone share their thought's on this with me? Thanks Drop

[rossman40]

Winchester was going well and during WWI got huge and then after the war was too big and the depression put the nail in the coffin and went into bankruptcy in the early 30s. Olin bought them up and aligned them with Western ammo to form Winchester-Western Divsion of Olin. They actually starting coming back during the depression which was tough. During WWII they came up with the M1 carbine and was the major producer of that and the M1 Garand which led them to become the producer of the M14. Things were going good but as skilled labor cost increased they could not compete with their biggest rival, Remington. They early designs were very labor intensive so the designers re-designed the models to take advantage of modern manufacturing methods (more stamped parts) of the time to lower production cost. Those went into effect in 1964 which is where you get the pre-64 and post-64 labels. Labor cost was still eating up Winchester and then came a big labor union strike around 1980 and they basicly bailed out and sold the plant to a employee group backed by State money. It was reformed as U.S. Repeating Arms Corp. They thought they knew how to do it but ended up in bankruptcy in 1989. A French holding firm snatched them up and then sold them to the Belgian Herstal Group, which also owns Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) and Browning Arms Company. In 2006 Herstal closed the USRAC plant in Connecticut and was in negotiations with Olin on the licensing of the Winchester brand name which was expiring. Olin kept the rights to the Winchester brand and makes a ton of money just licensing it out to be put on all kinds of stuff (much like other companies like S&W, Colt and Browning) The deal on licensing went thru and in 2006 they announced the FN plant in Columbia, SC would be making the Model 70 with a modified pre-64 design. Just this year they announced Browning would bring back the lever actions and is making the shotguns (in Europe and Japan).

The big differences you can see is the bolt, totaly different, a pre-64 has controlled round feed like a Mauser with the huge extractor and the post-64 looks more like a Remingtons. Also different stock shape and the pre-64 cut checkering instead of impressed. Now in 1992 after Herstal bought USARC they made changes going back to the pre-64 design. The FN Special Police Rifle (SPR) and Patrol Bolt Rifle (PBR) are basicly the newer production pre-64 Winchesters which started being made at the USARC plant from 1992 till 2006 and then moved to Columbia, SC. They also came up with a Model 70 Classic which was the pre-64 design. FN has also added much better hammer forged barrels. Herstal felt they could sell the rifle if it was branded FN instead of Winchester and that they did. The FBI currently uses SPRs and supposedly other agencies including the Secret Service. Supposedly during the DOJs 10,000 round test the SPRs were the only rifles to finish without breakage or jams and still maintained .5 MOA.

Another interesting fact is the Winchester Model 70 chambered in 30-06 was the sniper rifle for the Marines. They bought small quantities starting during the Korean war till 1964. They felt the post-64 did not meet the standards and switched to the Remington 700 which became the basis of the M40. Carlos Hathcock won at Perry with a Model 70 chambered in the then new .300 WM and used a Model 70 in 30-06 while in Vietnam.

Basicly if you want a Model 70 avoid 1964-1992 production. The new production may even be better the the pre-64s due to tighter tolerances from CNC manufacturing.

[12ptdroptine]

Thank You Rossman.........I am thinking about investing in one after the first of the year.... Like I need another gun... But I think its an investment in my son's future... heirloom type of thing? That I can play with for awhile. In 30-06.

[ourway77]

Rossman40 correct me if I am wrong but the marines during the Korean War used the M-14 in 308 caliber for thier sniper rifles. also used the bolt action Rem 700 rifle known as a kate also 308 caliber. They have been known to make shots easily at 1000 yards. On occasion I watched them sight thier rifles in at 500 yards grouped in the 3-5" Range. Lou

[swampman]

The new Model 70s are very accurate and reasonably priced.

All Model 70s are good and post 64s are frequently more accurate than pre 64s.

The Model 700s are accurate and easy to work on.

Model 70s were used extensively in Vietnam and a lot of Carlos Hathcocks work was done with Model 70s.

[tasaman]

I have heard good things about the new Classic Model 70s. I have read the same as you about the improvements made and the comparison to the pre-64 actions. I have also read some very dismal groups produced by some various models by Winchester. When the owners of the offending rifles contacted Winchester to see if they were going to back up their product they would not. They said whatever the rifle shot was what it shot. One fellow was only getting 5 inch groups in his Coyote and they told him they felt it was within specs. I hope he was an isolated incident as I have always wanted a Model 70 Featherweight myself.

[rossman40]

Lou, your memory is rusty or your dancing the time warp! The M14 didn't enter service till 1957 and the Remington 700 wasn't made until 1962.

As far as US sniper rifles the Army adopted the M1903A4 in 1942, and the Marines instead fielded their own version based on the M1903A1. In 1944 the Army adopted the M1C to supplement the 03 and then the M1D version with a simpler scope mounting. The Marines didn't adopt the M1C till 1951. So doing Korea you seen 1903s and M1s. Starting in 1955 the Marines started buying M70s in small numbers mainly with Marksmanship units "slush funds" but there was a NSN awarded (if you know and have access to the system you can trace actual numbers bought). When Vietnam came around there was a scramble to get sniper rifles into the field so the Army brought the 03s and M1s out of mothballs or raided Marksmanship units armories. Around 1966 (as with a military supply chain, numbers started appearing in 1968) the Marines came up with the Rem 700 based M40 in .308 while the Army dragged their tail and finally came up with the sniper version of the M14, the M21 like in 1969. After Vietnam the Army went into sniper limbo but you still seen Special Operations units with M21s. The Marines kept improving the M40. It wasn't until 1988 that the Army came up with the M24 and then when Desert Storm came up there wasn't enough in service so the M21s came back out of mothballs. While both branches field the Barrett the Army stepped up to the M110 but just received the last contract of the M24s and in 2009 started changing them all to 300WM. Just a few months ago they announced a new PIP/improvement package for all the M24s updating the stock, silencer and optics and calling it the M2010 (not official). The Marines are keeping the M40 but have added "SPRs" (Special Purpose Rifles) which are for designated marksmen, basicly souped up M16s. There is also a MK13 which is their version of the M24 in 300WM. And of course the seals never gave up their SR-25s which they started getting in 1990 have been updated to the MK12 and much like the M110. Crane Naval Weapons Depot in Indiana has replaced Quantico as the Navy/Marines center for neat rifles

[12ptdroptine]

well.......... As of this writing I have decided not to go with a centerfitre rifle. I live in Illinois and cant do anything but punch paper with it. I already have a .243 and a.223 for yote's. And I have decided to go with another smokeless muzzeloader for a project. At least I can use it for deerhunting here. Thanks for your input guy's. And if you wish ...Keep the thread going..Never know maybe someday down the road...I have always had a hankerin for one. Thanks Drop